Building a Cannabis Business: Insights from Point7 Group's Ashley Picillo In this episode of the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Ashley Picillo, the Founder and CEO of Point7 Group and author of "Breaking the Grass Ceiling: Women, Weed, and Business." Ashley shared her fascinating journey into the cannabis industry, which began somewhat accidentally in 2014 when she was working on a non-cannabis project in Colorado. Her path led her to meet influential figures in the industry, and she eventually founded Point7 Group, a management consulting firm dedicated to cannabis.
Building a Cannabis Business: Insights from Point7 Group's Ashley Picillo
In this episode of the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Ashley Picillo, the Founder and CEO of Point7 Group and author of "Breaking the Grass Ceiling: Women, Weed, and Business." Ashley shared her fascinating journey into the cannabis industry, which began somewhat accidentally in 2014 when she was working on a non-cannabis project in Colorado. Her path led her to meet influential figures in the industry, and she eventually founded Point7 Group, a management consulting firm dedicated to cannabis.
Ashley discussed the challenges and opportunities she faced while building her business, emphasizing the importance of compliance in the cannabis industry. She highlighted how Point7 Group helps clients achieve licensure and maintain compliance, ensuring they have the knowledge to operate autonomously. Ashley also touched on her second business, Grove Cannabis, which provides fractional compliance services to small and mid-sized operators.
We delved into her book, "Breaking the Grass Ceiling," which explores the role of women in the cannabis industry. Ashley reflected on the progress and setbacks women have faced in this space, noting that while there are opportunities, the industry still mirrors many of the challenges seen in other sectors.
Throughout our conversation, Ashley's commitment to honesty, ethical business practices, and supporting women in the industry shone through. Her insights and experiences offer valuable lessons for anyone looking to navigate the ever-evolving world of cannabis.
Listeners can connect with Ashley and learn more about her work through the Point7 Group website and her social media channels. It was an inspiring and enlightening discussion, and I hope you find it as engaging as I did.
00:00:16 - Introduction to Bodacious Women in Cannabis Podcast
00:00:32 - Meet Your Host: Susan Burns
00:01:07 - Guest Introduction: Ashley Pacillo
00:01:43 - Early Collaboration and Insights
00:02:23 - Ashley's Journey into the Cannabis Industry
00:06:00 - Founding Point7 Group
00:09:26 - Core Focus of Point7 Group
00:11:08 - Importance of Compliance in Cannabis
00:13:58 - Challenges with Changing Regulations
00:15:14 - Educating Regulators and Social Equity Programs
00:22:19 - Inefficiencies in State Compliance
00:22:30 - Ashley's Book: Breaking the Grass Ceiling
00:28:00 - Women in Cannabis Industry: Challenges and Opportunities
00:30:01 - Overcoming Challenges and Building a Business
00:34:22 - Coping Skills and Support Systems
00:37:07 - Realities of the Cannabis Industry
00:38:22 - What Makes Ashley Bodacious
00:41:19 - Core Values and Leadership
00:44:50 - How to Connect with Ashley Pacillo
SPEAKER_00:
Welcome to the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, the show where the bold and brilliant women cannabis business leaders share their journey and their expertise. Here's your host, Susan Burns.
SPEAKER_04: Hi, this is your podcast host, Susan Burns. I work in the cannabis industry as a lawyer and more recently as founder of Botanicals for Boomers. I am profoundly grateful to be working in this industry, and I am especially grateful to meet fabulous, bodacious women as I go along. They're an inspiration to all of us, have a boatload of courage, and this podcast is a way to share their inspiration with you, our wonderful listeners. Today, we're thrilled to be talking with Ashley Pacillo. Founder and CEO of Point7 Group, Ashley is also the author of Breaking the Glass Ceiling, Women, Weed, and Business. And that book debuted at the 2017 South by Southwest Festival. Ashley has been working in this industry for 10 years. So she's clearly a pioneer. Welcome, Ashley.
SPEAKER_02: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_04: It's so great to have you here. You and I have just begun working together, which has been an absolute pleasure, I have to say. Thank you. Likewise. Oh, thank you. But I'm so thrilled that you're making the time to join, because I know you have a lot of wisdom and insight to share about the industry and in particular women in the industry. So 2014 was just at the very beginning. How did you get into the cannabis industry? What was your motivation and where did you come from before that?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, gosh, it feels like so long ago, but also like yesterday in some ways. I yeah. So 2014, the beginning, I would say with the asterisk of, of course, legal legalization. So in some ways, it felt like the beginning. And in other ways, as I've met people, you know, throughout the years that have been working in this for decades before I ever encountered the cannabis space, it's I've just learned so much about that even earlier history. But I got into cannabis in sort of an accidental way. I was working on a non-cannabis project in Colorado, and I was supposed to be starting a full-time job in New York City six months later. And so I had, for the first time in my life, a little bit of sort of unplanned time. Prior to that, I was a teacher. I got my master's in teaching and education. I did Teach for America that sent me to Hawaii. Before that, I studied business. I had worked in business, etc. And nothing in my past really steered me towards cannabis. It truly was an accident in a lot of respects. I wound up meeting a woman who I'm very lucky to now call a friend. Her name's Megan Sanders, and Meg was the CEO at the time of the one of the larger cannabis facilities in the country, certainly one of the largest in Colorado. And and she after working on what was supposed to be a short term project, she invited me to join the team full time. And it was kind of a stunning turn of events, certainly for my family and some of my friends. I was leaving New York, moving to Colorado, getting into an industry I didn't really know that much about. But sometimes you have those gut feelings in your life that something just feels right, even if it's kind of out of left field, as they say. And no regrets. I dove headfirst into things. I was you know, in my mid-20s. And I remember thinking, this is a space that it's wide open for creation. I mean, you had this incredible group of people who had been very passionate about the plant. And it was the beginning of many of those people mixing with sort of more traditional business minds. because of that time in history, I guess, if there was just opportunities galore to get involved. And despite not having a lot of cannabis experience prior, I'd never been a consumer. I was always an athlete. I had a lot of misconceptions about the plant that have been dispelled time and time again over the years. And I've just come to appreciate so much about the space and what it's what it's taught me.
SPEAKER_04: Excellent. And as they say, there are no accidents.
SPEAKER_02: Correct.
SPEAKER_04: That's right. I mean, just a little bit. I know you. I can see it's a perfect fit. So whatever things you believe in, fate or God or whatever, this is like a divine intervention of some sort to have you with us.
SPEAKER_02: I like that. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
SPEAKER_04: So tell us about your current position with Point7. When did you start that company and what inspired you to start that company?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. So I think what I was attracted to in terms of the Canvas space, aside from the people I'd met that were really the motivators for getting more and more involved in this, but I realized as a fairly young woman in terms of her career that a lot of the positions I had applied for and jobs that I'd had, I mean, my trajectory was more or less defined. Certainly, you know, we all have some control over how we perform and, and whatever. But I just remember thinking, this space, as I said, it was really wide open. And I felt like it was going to give me a unique chance to kind of flex different muscles and really you know, think about things in an arena that was very new and, you know, where processes hadn't been developed, trainings weren't there. And so I just felt, you know, I, I had a lot more control over where I was going. Um, I started 0.7 in 2014. Uh, at the time it was like a LLC I set up for some consulting projects and I wind up putting it down until December of 2016, when I took the full-time position at mindful. In that capacity, I was running product manufacturing, cultivation, retail, training, you know, every process was, like I said, being developed kind of from the ground up. And so I had this really unique crash course opportunity to learn the ins and outs of the space. And by the end of 2016, I think It was obvious that many other states were looking to Colorado to figure out what Colorado had done well, that they maybe wanted to emulate. And then what are the things Colorado did that you'd want to avoid, the pain points you maybe wouldn't want to repeat? And so I realized there were a lot of other states with unique opportunities of their own. And so I went all in on the company. at in December of 2015, excuse me, kicking off full time in the company in January of 2016. And I've been, you know, fully focused on that ever since. This past year, I, I formed a second business called Grove Cannabis, where we're providing fractional compliance to operators, specifically small and mid sized companies that maybe don't need compliance on their team or their payroll, but they need access to compliance and information all the time, obviously, to power these companies. And so we're trying to figure out how to make compliance more accessible in terms of information providing, et cetera. And on the .7 side, we haven't put .7 down. It's just evolved a lot as a business model, as the industry's evolved. But since starting the business and going, you know, really, really diving headfirst into that, we've worked in 40 states. We've supported, you know, hundreds and hundreds of clients over the years, getting licenses, expanding their operations. And again, I can't in some respects, it feels like all that time flew by. And then I look back at everything we've done. It's it's crazy to consider the story.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah and so what do you have a primary focus for 0.7? Yeah we do. Talk to us about that.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah so 0.7 at its core that and I say at its core because it's As a management consulting firm dedicated to Canvas, we touch on lots of things and we work on lots of kind of curated projects for our clients that come to us for a pretty broad range of needs. I'd say our number one focus area over the years has been helping groups achieve licensure. Part of that, obviously, is going through the gauntlet of licensing processes that are set forth by a state. But something that we really take pride in and I think what differentiates .7 from other firms is that we're very committed to not just doing the steps for a client and making sure they get a license, but generally we're really trying to teach them about the decisions that they need to make and why they need to make them and how we're approaching that decision with the idea and the goal of once you're licensed, we don't think an operator should be, you know, permanently tied to a consultancy. These operators should have the knowledge on their own to run these businesses. And so it's not, to me, it's never been enough about just consulting and providing information. It's providing it in a way where it lands and it sticks and the person has that knowledge for their own, for themselves, for their business, so that they can grow and they can run the businesses that they're pursuing. you know, more autonomously. I think that's a tie back to my teaching background, probably, and wanting to make sure that information is shared in a way that's actually useful to the operator.
SPEAKER_04: You know, which is great, because I'm sure, I mean, so needed to have access to compliance. One of the more complicated areas, I think, of the cannabis industry and most I work with smaller to medium-sized businesses, and without exception, they want to be compliant with the law. And so if you miss a few steps, it's very unforgiving, I would say, in most instances. And so to be able to move through your business and have the confidence that either you have someone in your pocket working with you on compliance issues, or that you've already learned from somebody who has been around for a long time. I think that's a huge asset for a small business.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And I think compliance, before I started working in this space, if someone had said the word compliance to me, I would have thought, I don't know, in my head that there's a person in the small office kind of covered in papers and there's just files everywhere and it just sounded boring, etc. But, you know, what I've come to realize and appreciate about compliance, obviously, there is that piece, there's that tedious piece and the checklists and procedures, etc. But when you really start to understand these regulatory frameworks and why they exist and what you know, an overseeing office, like the Office of Canvas Management, what they're trying to accomplish by putting certain regulations in place. Once you really understand where they're coming from and what these regs are trying to do, there's a lot of creativity that opens up from there. I mean, part of understanding the regulations isn't just so that you can adhere to them, And so you can understand what your options are as a business owner and how to operate certainly compliantly, but how do you. maximize what you're doing or optimize what you're doing within that framework, within those lanes. And certainly I'm not at all suggesting like looking for, quote unquote, loopholes. But I think the deeper you understand, again, not only the regulations and what they're for, but how they came to be and what the back story is, as an operator, I think you can differentiate yourself a lot better. And so a lot of what we're doing, especially in the new business, is wanting to make sure that operators have that information, that they have access to someone that where they can ask questions as they arise, knowing that cannabis regulations, as complicated as they are, if that weren't enough, they change all the time.
SPEAKER_04: I mean, all the time.
SPEAKER_02: Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_04: All the time.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. And I mean, they're all very, very different. Having worked in few hundred different regulatory environments, 40 states, a few countries, but also in some markets, Michigan, California, the cities and counties have their own complicated regulations and so that's been interesting to kind of comparing them and looking for patterns and kind of understanding, again, where these things are coming from. And more recently in the last few years, actually getting involved earlier in the process to try and educate regulators themselves so that they understand why this thing might sound really good, but cause you know, irreparable harm to an operator, especially in light of social equity programs and whatever, which I'm very, very passionate about. They're not all made equally. Some of these social equity programs, as well-intentioned as they are, cause, I would say, much more harm than than they'll ever cause benefit for people. And a lot of that comes from not truly understanding how these regulations will work in real life and what that will really feel like for an operator.
SPEAKER_04: And for the regulators that impose or the legislators that impose those requirements, and then no clue what the intended operator has to go through to get there. I mean, it's complicated just to. So I think what I'm hearing, if this is accurate, is that you educate rule makers, lawmakers, operators, and then you help operators or would-be operators obtain licensing and then you help with compliance so that they can, assuming they obtain a license, they can be successful in operating their business.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Is that right?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would say that's right. I mean, in all the years I've been working in this space, I can't believe we're past the 10 year mark, but people are not calling me and saying, I can't wait to run my compliance team. I can't wait to do it. Yeah, inventory. I'm surprised. I know it's shocking. It's it's always the same things. I'm pumped to grow some weed. I'm excited to make new products. I can't wait to bring my brand to life and connect with customers. And frankly, as a business owner in any industry, you know, those are the things that you should be excited about. Right.
SPEAKER_04: So exactly the way they all start.
SPEAKER_02: Right. And it's, you know, one thing we try to we really harp on compliance. Sure, if you're a big operation, you might have a compliance person or a small compliance team. But compliance in cannabis is the responsibility of every single person on your payroll. And the thing that's tricky about one of the many things that's tricky about the cannabis industry is that the vast majority of your employees are likely in entry to kind of junior mid-manager level roles, meaning you might have a lot of people that are learning how to work in a professional setting. Lots of folks that we've met, this is their first jobs, they just graduated, they're just getting going. Lots of potential and lots of talent there, but also a lot of risk in terms of your entry-level folks really being responsible for a lot of your risk management. It's unlike other industries in that sense that every single person on your team is doing something every day that ties back into compliance. It's not this offshoot of your CEO that sit alone in an office at all. If it's put to practice the way that it should be, it's really got to be permeating throughout your whole organization. One of the challenges with cannabis is that their regs are always changing. They're written in this very heavy handed legal way. It's just really not accessible to the vast majority of your staff and to many operators. I mean, myself included, when I first got into this, I'm like, why can't you just write this as a normal sentence? Like, why does this have to be this super convoluted thing? And in some ways it's frustrating because It feels sometimes like people are being set up to fail, even in the way regulations are communicated and they're written. I mean, our business, whether this is good or bad, I mean, companies need help in this space, understanding and interpreting these regulations. I don't know if that's necessarily fair. You know, I don't know if I feel like an operator should be able to read them and have a pretty strong understanding just by reading them as they're written.
SPEAKER_04: So it's… Especially, I agree with that, because especially we're all charged with compliance with the laws. So correct.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: You know, if we can't read and understand what it is we're supposed to comply with, even, I mean, traffic laws are usually in plain English, you know. Why can't we write these in plain English? And also, if I might say, grammatically correct.
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh. Don't even. Don't even. Don't even get me started on that, Susan.
SPEAKER_01: I know. Yeah. So I think that's. But anyway.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. There's a lot of, I mean, our focus has primarily been on the operator side and on the groups that are becoming operational, pursuing licensure, et cetera. But one, I'd say, takeaway for me last year when I was really looking back at my first 10 years in cannabis and thinking about what's gone well, what's changed. It's good, I think, to take time to reflect and celebrate the good things, consider the things that could have gone better or whatever. But one of the themes for me was, wow, you know, a lot of our work is really a byproduct of regulators not fully understanding the space and maybe overregulating or putting things into place that just are hard to enact and practice. And so for, like I said, the first 10 years, it's helping our teams or clients get ready and sort of navigate in that framework. My personal interest is still in that, but I've also shifted towards really wanting to work more collaboratively with regulators to help them understand how to accomplish the things that they want to accomplish without harming accidentally operators that are not going to be able to navigate whatever it is that's been put in place. I mean, some of these regs are just, I get where they're coming from. But some of them are overly cautious to the point where no one's set up for success.
SPEAKER_04: It's a stranglehold.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. Well-worded.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah. And I think that's important, too, because it's more efficient for the state to be able to operate a program that everyone can understand, including the state. Because the way it is, at least a lot of times with things in Minnesota, you have people that are out in the field enforcing this. The hemp industry is operational in Minnesota. And you have, they'll go to one store and say one thing, another store owned by the same company, same products, and say an entirely different thing. So if the people in enforcement don't understand, can't even understand what they're doing, how do you expect an operator to understand? And let alone, then you've got the appeals and all that kind of thing that go on that take time for the state's part, too. It's costly for an operator, but it's also costly for the state. Ultimately, I guess the consumers pay because it's tax dollars that operate the state. But I mean, it's just totally inefficient. So I couldn't agree with you more on that point. Ashley? I want to ask you about your book. Yeah. So you wrote a book about women in the cannabis industry in 2017. Yes. So very early. What inspired that and talk to us about the book and where we can find it and all those kinds of good things.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. So the book is called Breaking the Grass Ceiling. Obviously, I'm sure there's not one female listener that hasn't heard of the glass ceiling. So the grass ceiling concept obviously is about the same thing, where these ceilings are, but this time in cannabis. It started because the year before, so in 2016, I went to South by Southwest in Austin. I was not there for cannabis. and realized that there were no cannabis panels. There were no cannabis business people on these stages or cannabis talks. And just kind of realized it was just a reflection of the times, I guess, that cannabis hadn't made it to many of these mainstream stages the way that we're seeing now. And I said, I'm going to apply for a panel discussion next year with a few women who should be talking about this. And the panel was called Breaking the Grass Ceiling. So we get accepted. It was a huge deal. I was extremely excited. Like I said, one of the first cannabis discussions or presences really at the event. There were a few other groups that year, too, and maybe one the year before. But the women from South by Southwest that was working with us reached out and had said, hey, by the way, if any of the speakers on your panel have ever written a book, We'd love to sell it in the South by Southwest bookstore where, you know, you're going to have President Obama's book and Tim Ferriss's books, et cetera. So that bookstore is is a pretty prestigious. Right. So I was like, you're like, say no more.
SPEAKER_03: How do I write a book? So I remember asking, like, so when do you need the book in your hands?
SPEAKER_02: And that was we found out we got accepted, I think, in pretty late November. And I was told that they needed the book in the beginning of February. So we're heading into the holidays at this point. And I was like, you know, this is probably a little crazy, but all good ideas are crazy. Right. So I I reached out to all of the women that I really had heard of at the time. And I think that's important to say, because if I wrote the book again today, There's just so many women that I've met, and the book is admittedly much more Colorado-centric than it would be had I set out on the project today. At that time, I'd only really worked in Colorado. That's where I was living, so there's certainly Colorado influence there. Again, knowing the space much better now than I did then, there's a lot of people that, you know, I think should have been included from California, from, you know, from New York, from other legacy backgrounds. So anyway, just just to say that. But yes, I reached out to all the women that I had that I knew or women I thought I could get an introduction to. And basically the ones that responded that were able to do an interview with me within like a two week window. They were the ones that were in the book because I had 45 days essentially to write and design and learn how to publish one. It's on Amazon. I don't remember. I think we have an audio version too. It's a cool book. It's not on Audible, I'll say. I checked. Yeah, that's right. You did check there. I think it was on Kindle at one point, but maybe Susan wants to do the Audible voiceover version.
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
SPEAKER_02: That could be our next collaboration. But yeah, it was a really interesting experience, although I will have to say that And what was really tough in the years that followed publishing, many of the women I interviewed more than half were ousted from the companies that they started. It says a lot about some of the press that we see with cannabis, that women are very prominent and they're very powerful in this space, et cetera. That's true to a degree, but cannabis doesn't exist in a vacuum. So many of the realities that we see in other industries For example, that women are far less likely to be able to lead a successful fundraising round that holds in campus. That's that's true here. So I think in the beginning, when when legalization first happened, it's my opinion that there was maybe an artificial sense of women rising in the space. And it was certainly happening. Women deserve to be in the positions they were in. The women that I spoke with and interviewed They're, you know, they're absolutely impressive. But as the industry normalized, you know, you started to see the same patterns that we see in tech and then we see in other, you know, other spaces. And so I guess my my advice to women now looking at the industry is certainly reading those headlines about women leading in cannabis, et cetera. That's not it's not not true. But recognizing that the more the more normalized this becomes and the more mainstream this industry becomes and the more the way that federal legalization impacts banking and fundraising, all of that's going to have a continued effect on how we see women rising and thriving or not within within this space. And so. I'm still proud of the book, and it was an incredible project, but it was very hard to watch some of the things that I had come to believe maybe not hold in the long run.
SPEAKER_04: Volume two or sequel?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly. It's definitely time for a sequel.
SPEAKER_04: Breaking the grass ceiling, or not.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, or not. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah, I've been talking about it. It's a labor of love. I mean, it takes a lot to put it together, but I think we are overdue for… you know, the next phase of that project and taking a look at other places. I mean, look at Minnesota. Like, there's so many incredible women running these businesses and organizations, et cetera. Women are doing really cool things. And I think there's a lot of opportunities in this space still, even though those concerns I shared are valid. I still think it's an incredibly welcoming industry for women. There's a chance to create and build and do very well here. Just make no mistake, it is very difficult. And some of the things that we face as women in other spaces, again, unfortunately, there are still realities here.
SPEAKER_04: Indeed. Talk to us, Ashley, a bit about the challenges that you've faced and how you've turned those into opportunities or, you know,
SPEAKER_02: found your way through them and and As I know you've had them oh Yes Yeah, I mean it's This has been It's been an interesting ride for a lot of different reasons. I would say, you know, as of point seven was the first business I ever founded. So it's extremely difficult to start a business, as many listeners and as you certainly know, Susan, yourself, let alone starting a business in an industry that doesn't even know what it is yet. I mean, when this when the company started, there was just so much still being figured out. And I felt like part of my job was dispelling people, you know, myths about the plant. But yeah, to learn how to lead a team, to build a business, to build a business model that is firm enough that it can grow and that you can bring clients in and you can make money, et cetera, but also agile enough that it can change to reflect and never adult moment space. I mean, we talked about the regulations changing all the time. You've got to be on your toes constantly, and then layer on a global pandemic that no one prepared any of us for. I mean, it was difficult. It was difficult to build a business that, you know, we had a massive team, it was performing The company was outperforming my wildest expectations for it. And then to lose all of that literally overnight in the wake of COVID, realizing that our clients weren't eligible for any sort of aid. They weren't eligible for PPP loans or for emergency grants or whatever, because they were federally illegal businesses. So it was extremely jarring. And it was really hard to watch companies that we had come to really love and care about over the years, just also lose everything really quickly. It's been hard. So that's another piece of advice, recognizing that the only constant again is change. Anything that you're doing is going to change. The way you're operating is going to change. You know, you want to you want to get comfortable. But I don't know if I've ever felt like true comfort in this.
SPEAKER_04: Well, I think you have to be comfortable with change.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04: You know, that's part that you just have to accept that that is in any business, but times 100 in cannabis, I think.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely. Times 100. And I think that the the like the ways there's lots of different ways that you can And, you know, that you can do that but for me I mean, having strong relationships having strong friendships having a strong partner at home whatever that looks like for you is critical, because it's. Yeah, it's really it's this is not for the faint of heart. As again, as a first time entrepreneur and learning all of what comes with being an entrepreneur, starting a business, filing your taxes, you know, all the stuff that goes with having a company, and then later on. you know, your business model may have to change a hundred times. And ours probably has. I mean, if you interviewed everyone who's worked with me over the years, we had like jokes at our company that we were just pivoting all the time. And that can be fun for a while. I think especially some nine to five people that worked with us over the years, like, this is great. I love that no two days are the same, but It's a double-edged sword. Without predictability, growth can be very difficult. And there wasn't a lot of room for error. So you've got to be able to move quickly, change course quickly. And I think having sounding boards around you, whether they're friends or colleagues, professional groups, whatever, that's necessary for your sanity.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what I was thinking of asking you is, so how did you, in the early days when you were just learning how to run a business and all those things, and then the cannabis ever changing on top, what were your coping skills there? But it sounds like you have a good, solid support mentor group in place.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it definitely was. And I look at, I mean, I'm still young, the energy level I had at other junctures of the company were really different. Like I was it was not uncommon for like 70 hour weeks was like a normal week. And it was and I loved it because it was just such a fascinating space. And I still love it. But again, I say that not to discourage anyone, but I think even for groups that are thinking about getting a license. I mean, we're very some teams we talk to, we're very honest with them. You know, this might not be this. This doesn't this may not be what you think it is like. No, you should not be taking out a second mortgage on your house to pursue a cannabis dispensary license.
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think or build you build out your space.
SPEAKER_02: Right.
SPEAKER_04: I mean, advance.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. We've got to be honest about especially as professional service providers, attorneys, accountants, consultants like us, whatever you are, people are making major decisions based on your advice. And I think we all know there's great partners. Susan and I, as an example, you meet people that are like-minded, and you've got to latch on to those people. Because it's not how everyone is wired. There are a lot of consulting firms in this space that have no problem encouraging people to make all kinds of decisions that probably are not really in their best interest. We've told groups we don't want their money. We don't want them to sign with us, but we don't want them to sign with anyone. Your business needs to be fleshed out more before you make this leap. And if people take that advice, great. If they don't, that's on them. But we believe in trying to paint an accurate picture of what this is. This is not the industry where you're just making money hand over fist. There's a lot of misconceptions about the wealth creation factor in cannabis. And yes, there is money to be made here, but you are going to work harder than you've ever worked to get there and make no mistake about that. So I think finding the line between encouraging or discouraging someone is always hard for me. But I'm trying to constantly just be honest with people about the realities of being in a federally illegal industry.
SPEAKER_04: Yes. Yeah, both exhilarating and exhausting, completely exhausting, I would say, from what I've observed. And like you said, the change is exciting, and that's one of the things. I mean, to me, in the lawyer side, it's the most fascinating area of the law ever in my entire career, which has been long. But at some point, because every change costs your clients money, and it gets tiring to say, OK, now we have to revisit this. And yes, I'm going to charge you. It gets tiring. It would be nice to have some stability. But we'll get there, I guess, in 20 years.
SPEAKER_02: We'll get there. You know, and then there's that, too. I mean, there's moments I think we're all humans, like it's normal to kind of crave both at different points. I mean, I know myself well enough to know I would be really, really bored and anything that's, you know, super predictable every day. But yeah, there's also just days of like, could could anything happen normally? Could one thing just happen, you know, normally? Is that too much to ask?
SPEAKER_04: Do we have two months the same? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so Ashley, it's an absolute delight talking with you. And I think that people might have some inkling of an answer to this question. But what is it that you think makes you uniquely bodacious?
SPEAKER_03: Oh, man.
SPEAKER_02: Certainly not my ability to talk about myself. I think like many women, that's a struggle, struggle area. You know, I think I've tried above everything else to be, you know, a leader to my team, a leader to my clients and a leader in the industry, you know, without compromising on what to me are very clear, like values. And there's, you know, I'm very much led by what's right and wrong. And I don't have any trouble saying that, even though it doesn't always make me the most popular person in the room. But I think there's a reason we would have lost this, I would have lost this business time and time again, if that's not who I was and saw who our team was, because A lot of the clients that we have, we've had for seven or eight years, you know, not consistently, but they'll come back for the next project or the next pursuit or whatever. Um, it's a very small industry. People don't forget how you treated them or how you, you know, the advice that you've given them. And so for us, like I said, we've been recently in Minnesota. I mean, there are a lot of groups we're in touch with 10 months ago. I just said to them, it's too early. Don't, you know, here's some things you can do. right now, but mostly we got to wait. We don't know what game we're playing. We don't know what this arena even looks like.
SPEAKER_04: So how can you… Or how many playing pieces.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah. I mean, how do you make some of these decisions with such limited information? And I take, you know, above all else, I've really and tried my best to instill that in our team and everyone that works with us, that it's honesty above all. We don't guess. If we don't know the answer, you say you don't know the answer. Be a good human. And in turn, I think that turns into being a good business owner. Cannabis is, there's some bad actors in this space. get references, ask people to give you three clients they've worked with. I mean, do your homework, because not everyone is made equally. And when you find the people that are ethical, that have the moral compass, that want to genuinely do right, those are your people. Stick with those people. And yeah, I mean, we can keep building this into a space that we want to be in.
SPEAKER_04: So I'm going to go back to you and bodaciousness and accepting and acknowledging that what you just said is very sage advice in the industry, underscore. And going back to you, do you think at the core or the nugget of your bodaciousness is a desire for honesty or truth? Or is there, I'm trying to get at what is it that's unique to you that just really drives you to do what you do, how you do it?
SPEAKER_02: That's a good question. I mean, I think.
SPEAKER_04: You don't have to answer it. I just was reflecting on what you were talking about. And to me, you do so many different things. And there aren't many people that go, oh, you want a book in the bookstore? OK, let's write one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I don't know. I think anything is.
SPEAKER_04: So that seems like bodacious to me to be. And oh, this industry? I don't know anything about it. Well, let me start a company.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's true. That's true. These were probably bold decisions.
SPEAKER_02: My family would probably tell you like, what were you thinking? But I think, I don't know, this whole journey has really been about calculated risks. Like for me, I figured out, okay, I could publish a book for I don't know, 45 to 60 days of really hard work. And I figured out how to self-publish, so I was able to cut a lot of the costs, et cetera. But I think that there's lots of pursuits I've started where it just wasn't going to come together or whatever. And I think something that definitely separates me from other people maybe is knowing like knowing when to throw your own ideas in the trash, knowing like that, you know, when you're sometimes some some people really push on something over and over and you got to know when to walk away sometimes when something just isn't working. And sometimes you need to move laterally before you can move forward. And, you know, there's a I think there's a boldness in that, too, like just not being so married to your own ideas, your own thoughts. Some of them just aren't going to be as good as other ones. And a lot of people in this industry, but also many other industries, they fail because there's so much ego. They can't see the forest through the trees. They can't be honest with themselves or anyone else about what's possible. So I think that honesty piece comes full circle there, too, like being honest with yourself about what you can and can't do. Um, you know, and then doing what, what is within the realm of possibility, doing it in a very all in way. Um, that's one of our team values to like, leave everything on the field, finish the day, finish the project, finish the game, whatever, knowing like you did everything you could possibly do. That's going to look different every day. It's going to look different every hour, every project. But if you can say that to yourself, I think it pays off in the end and really does separate. the people we want to work with and affiliate with from the people that probably don't.
SPEAKER_04: Agreed. Yeah. And well-spoken.
SPEAKER_03: Cheers to that.
SPEAKER_04: Cheers, cheers, clink, clink, or puff, puff, or whatever. So where can people find you? I know how to connect with you, but where can our listeners find you, and can they follow you on social media?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: If they want to get in touch with you to work with you.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, our website is point seven group dot com. The word the the word seven is spelled out. Sometimes people just put the digit there. But point seven group dot com. My I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn. My company is also on both. Our emails are on our on our website. And yeah, we're I'm not too hard to find, and I still love to teach, and I love to kind of share what we've learned over the years. So I'd love to be in touch, and if there's anything I can support with, especially women and other people that are trying to figure out how to get going in this, yeah, we'd love to hear from you. I would love to hear from you. Awesome.
SPEAKER_04: And you'd be lucky to connect with Ashley, I'll just say that. So thank you so much for joining us today.