Breaking Barriers: Women Leading the Cannabis Revolution In this episode of the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Heidi Whitman, a dynamic and inspiring cannabis industry consultant. Heidi shared her incredible journey into the cannabis industry, which was deeply influenced by her father's use of cannabis for mental health and her own experiences with holistic veterinary care.
In this episode of the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Heidi Whitman, a dynamic and inspiring cannabis industry consultant. Heidi shared her incredible journey into the cannabis industry, which was deeply influenced by her father's use of cannabis for mental health and her own experiences with holistic veterinary care.
Heidi's story is one of resilience and passion. She recounted how her father's struggle with cancer and the inability to provide him with cannabis in a Tampa hospital in 2000 sparked her determination to bring cannabis into empathetic healthcare settings. This drive led her to create the Naked Leaf brand, focusing on natural health products for both people and pets, which she successfully launched in the UK in 2018.
Throughout our conversation, Heidi highlighted the challenges she faced, including the mishandling of her brand post-acquisition and the ethical dilemmas she encountered in the industry. Despite these obstacles, Heidi's commitment to ethical practices and her passion for the cannabis industry have only grown stronger.
Heidi is now a consultant, working on various innovative projects, including precision medicine and internationalization of cannabis brands. She is also a co-founder of the Empower Her Cannabis Society, a rapidly growing network of over 600 women from 24 nations, dedicated to supporting and uplifting women in the cannabis industry.
Heidi's dedication to fostering a collaborative and inclusive environment in the cannabis space is truly inspiring. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience, community, and the pursuit of one's passion.
Listeners can connect with Heidi on LinkedIn to learn more about her work and the Empower Her Cannabis Society. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the cannabis industry and the incredible women leading the way.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidi-whitman-535a067/
Announcer:
Welcome to the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, the show where the bold and brilliant women cannabis business leaders share their journey and their expertise. Here's your host, Susan Burns.
Heidi Whitman: Hi, this is your podcast host, Susan Burns, a cannabis lawyer and founder of Botanicals for Boomers. As I move around the industry, I meet some fabulously bodacious women. They are inspiring and each in their own unique way. This podcast is a way to share that inspiration with you. Wonderful listeners. Thank you for joining us. And today we're super excited to be talking with Heidi Whitman, a cannabis industry consultant.
Susan Burns: Welcome, Heidi. Thank you so much for having me, Susan. I am thrilled to be on Bodacious Babes of Cannabis.
Heidi Whitman: Oh, that's another name, Bodacious Babes and Cannabis.
Susan Burns: I like it.
Heidi Whitman: Oh, that could be a subsection, a new brand.
Susan Burns: That's what I keep thinking of every time I hear bodacious. I'm like bodacious babes, but it's a nod to us.
Heidi Whitman: Early in the podcast, people were saying, oh, I had to look up audacious because it has a different meaning in where I come from. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. But anyway, anyway, it's there's so many wonderful women and you are absolutely one of them, a leader in this industry, Heidi. So talk to us about how you became involved in the cannabis industry and how long that's been. And yeah, give us a little background on you and what you're doing now, too.
Susan Burns: Okay, well, thank you so much. This industry was always in my brain for all my life because my father was an avid user of cannabis. It was around me as a child. I never thought much of it. It was something that my father used to use for his own mental health. And little did I know he was self-medicated and he probably didn't know he was self-medicating. But as he passed away in 2000, I wasn't able to give him his medicine at the hospital and he had a glioblastoma. And that was really the moment where I thought there's got to be a way to possibly bring this into some type of, you know, empathic situation where we could bring cannabis to people who really need it. And my father really needed it and he didn't have it. And he died a very depressed, anxious person with cancer. And I thought, well, that sucks. You know, we've got to come up with a different way. What a horrible way to go. It was pretty, it was pretty crappy, but you know, at the same time, It gave me a little bit of a buzz in the back of my brain. And of course that was 2000 and bringing cannabis into a Tampa hospital in Florida was not my way of making friends and influencing people. I got taken away many times and told to leave because I was simply sneaking it in, which was of course wrong, but I was trying to help my father. So fast forward, um, then in 2006, it came into my life again, or maybe it was 2005. I had a dog that was quite sick, and my holistic veterinarian was talking about it to me, and I thought, wow, I have a veterinary background, working as a technician for many years.
Heidi Whitman: You do have a veterinary background?
Susan Burns: Mm-hmm, yes.
Heidi Whitman: Oh, I didn't know that, okay.
Susan Burns: I've been fascinated with animal health since I think I was born. I was always working on animal welfare missions, and working for shelters, and working in many hospitals, and I was really struggling with a dog that had a histiocytoma, and I didn't know how to treat it. And my veterinarian mentioned it, we didn't use it then, but she mentioned it to me. And I thought, okay, here we go again, cancer, cannabis, what is the link? How are we working with this? And I started diving into it. And it wasn't until 2016, where I said to my husband, we should really bring something from the States to the UK. And maybe we can focus on my passion now. Cause we had focused on one of his passions before I said, let's focus on natural health and bring in something for people and for animals. And I think that's cannabis. And then of course we went to LA and we studied it and we went all around the US looking for suppliers and created a brand called Naked Leaf. And that was for people and for pets. It was exactly what I envisioned. And we launched in 18 here in the UK. I was told I couldn't sell it to pets then. So I ended up selling it back to the US, a lot of my stock, and eventually exited while another group picked us up for their vertical operation at the time. So it was a quick turnaround. not necessarily the best decisions, but the industry was so nascent, especially over here. So I felt like it gave me a good grasp of what not to do, what to do and a good learning curve. And ever since then, I've been doing strategic work for different groups from medical cannabis to CBD brands to internationalization projects.
Heidi Whitman: Awesome. And so that's basically since 2008, you've been solely involved in.
Susan Burns: Well, I was working on other things, but it was buzzing in my brain. How do I make this something that I can do every single day? And you're supposed to do what you love. I had an animal care company in Florida. And once I exited from there and sold it, I moved to the UK and I was sort of finding my feet again, trying to figure out what I was going to do next. And it just, it all fell into place and it wouldn't work anywhere else.
Heidi Whitman: All right. And that brings us to present day.
Susan Burns: What are you doing these days? I am consulting for a few different groups. Like I mentioned, I have touched a lot of the moving aspects of the industry. But one of my passions is definitely working with other women in the industry and helping lift them, lifting their businesses, and lifting the industry all together to be a more inclusive environment. So on top of consulting, I wear a few different board hats. I work as a board member for the Veterinary Cannabis Society. I'm one of the only non-veterinarians board, which is a real big honor since it is a passion of mine. And I'm a director and board member of the Pet Pharmaceuticals Group, which is bringing a cannabis medicine to market here in the UK, because we're not allowed to provide it for our pets at this time. So those two go hand in hand, education and science. And I also am on an executive committee for the Cannabis Summit, which is an international summit in a very collegiate setting where we focus on issues that are at hand with a smaller group versus a large event that's focused solely on educating one another from a global standpoint. And most recently, I've been a co-founder of the Empower Her Cannabis Society, which is started and is currently a WhatsApp group where we have over 600 members now representing 24 nations. And that really was a game changer because I was felt very alone. Empower her. Like ECS, Empower Her Cannabis Society. However, we are new. We grew extremely fast and we will be moving over from a WhatsApp group where we have a more channeled community. And that will be built out, is being built out as I talk right now. So therefore everyone can utilize it once again to lift one another, to lift their businesses and to lift the industry because We are in a bit of a renaissance in cannabis right now and over on this side of the world in the UK and Europe where I live, we are 10 years behind the US, 10 years behind Canada. So we are really picking ourselves up right now and it's a little bit loose, but I think that if we have a driving force of equality across all of the different businesses, we will actually have a better chance at surviving this industry's ever evolving landscape with balance, because we're trying to create balance for everybody else.
Heidi Whitman: That's a good goal. I think you say 10 years behind, but I think there are so many mistakes that have been made and are being made in the US market that I, and as that saying goes, hindsight is 20, 20, you know, so when you start something, you have to work out the kinks, you know, that you can, nobody can ever envision every, all the implications of some law that's passed or, or a regulation, or everybody's trying to do their best. And with cannabis, I think we in the industry have to balance all the people who are simply afraid of it, primarily because of the war on drugs and those kinds of things. But so I'm hoping in hindsight, 2020, you will be able across the pond to take from our mistakes here and come up with something, a really solid model.
Susan Burns: Exactly. I think that that is the goal. And I have, I have to say, you know, when I started here in the UK, I went to my first investor meeting when I was looking for capital for the Naked Leaf, my brand that I had for people and pets. And I walked in, it was just a bunch of people in suits. And I was like, oh my gosh, the hippie does not know where she fits. You know, I could not work it out. And it was very much a pat on the back. We know one another. And then everyone all of a sudden was a cannabis expert, but never even touched the plant. And I was shocked. Um, and that was only, you know, five, six years ago. And now I see granted that we are male heavy when it comes to the gender, um, uh, imbalance within the industry. However, Now that I've created the Empower Her group as a co-founder and have a leadership board that is Canadian and German, I'm noticing that the web we're weaving as women, it's really strong. And I was at the International ICBC Conference in Berlin about a month ago, and there were about 150 of us there, and that was a lot. We did a group picture. Well, there were about a hundred women, I think, from Empower Her there, but there were other women there too. And we just all felt like not alone. We all felt like we could refer things to one another. And I think that collaborative mindset is very female oriented where there is, hold on, I'll help you. I don't need anything back. I'll help you. And I never felt that before. I was a token woman in two companies and it was really uncomfortable. I was a dog and pony show. I was brought into board meetings and then asked to leave when I was done. I had decisions that were told that I could make that weren't. And I felt like I was a bit of a, I was just a token and I was also very dispensable. And I thought that's just crazy. I should be indispensable. Like I should be wanted to be here because I have all the connections. But I stand on the shoulders of those people now and I've grown taller and stronger because of that adversity. And I really want other women who are in the industry to know that we've got each other's back. And there are some people that are, you know, it doesn't matter what your gender is, you could not be a good team member or you don't play well with others. But I find that to be less and less a problem when you have a bunch of people around you that are in your group or in your circle or in your network. And I get so inspired by some of these women. I mean, I am blown away by some of the women on our group. It's just mind blowing. And it gets me up and going.
Heidi Whitman: It is so amazing. It truly is. And I mean that when I say the intro to the podcast, the inspiration. And you're right, Heidi. I agree with you 100%. I want to go back to what you said about being trotted into a boardroom to give your spiel and then asked to leave as soon as you're done when this serious conversation takes place is what I'm reading into it. Yeah. Yeah.
Susan Burns: Yeah.
Heidi Whitman: Well, that moment where we all know that. I mean, when you said that, my heart just sank because I've been in that situation so many times, you know, and what you're saying is, no, they should want me there. And it's such a bizarre disconnect between our talents and what we know and what we know how to do, and then the dismissiveness. And so I'm thrilled to hear And I want to highlight how you've taken that experience and learned, lived through all that pain and humiliation, embarrassment, shame, whatever. Because it's a struggle to try to figure out, I think, where you are and where you fit when that's going on. And you clearly, many times, know more than the people that are dismissing you. So I'm just thrilled to hear you say you're standing on their shoulders now. and moving on to something else and using it to benefit.
Susan Burns: Yeah. And you know what? I think those negative situations, I can hand on heart say that most of the women I've spoken to, and that because of the Empower Her group, I have spoken to so many more than I ever thought I would when it comes to professionals in this space. And some really, I mean, just pardon my French, but badass women that know exactly what they're doing. And they had leading companies and owning companies exiting companies with success and like, they're inspirational. And, but we've all been walked all over. That's the one common denominator. And I even had, um, a man, a disgruntled ex manager of a company. I had nothing really to do with him show up at one of my keynote speeches and sat right in front of me with his arms crossed, staring me down while I was on the stage. And I thought to myself, are you kidding me? Like, is this, was this worth the flight? because I didn't have anything to do with them. But you know, I thought that intimidation is something that people think they can still get away with today. It's pretty disgusting. And, and now I don't have to worry about it. I just look in the audience and see my girls and I know all those women are out there. And those are the ones that I'm focused on. And my talks changed from what are the issues with the adversity of women in the cannabis space? You know, what, what are the blatant imbalances and disparity that is between the genders. And now I just start talking about all the successful women that I know. If they want me to go on stage, I just talk about every, I will highlight the actual person and all the successes they have done and say that we can do this. We can do this together. We can do all kinds of things. Now we are leading as a minority. I believe that wholeheartedly that we are a smaller group of constituents in the cannabis space, but we're leading. We're leading by example. We're leading by collaborative nature. We're making more successful decisions. And when you have most of, you know, about 51%, I think of women are the cannabis consumers. Why are we not in the boardroom making the decisions for what those consumers need and what their health needs are? So I feel like we're pushing ourselves to the front and it's really cool to watch.
Heidi Whitman: It is, and to watch and to be a facilitator of that, it's really amazing. So thank you for everything that you and the other co-founders are doing. It's an amazing group. I have the benefit of being a member of that. And that is also inspiring in and of itself, just to see the level of activity, or if you need something to be able to say, who knows such and such, or where can I find XYZ. to have that support of that community and to know that it's a solid support of sisterhood. It's so strong.
Susan Burns: It is. It's really cool. And we're slowly segwaying over to a community forum style versus WhatsApp so everyone can fine tune what they're looking for, whether they're hiring, whether they're looking for work, if it's an industrial hemp person, if it's a medical cannabis question, you know, it'll be segmented. And I think that's, That's something we were planning on doing a year after starting it, but due to the volume of participants. And something to note too, is an initiative that we're just about to implore is having other cannabis women's groups kind of arm and arm with us, because it's not competition. If the women, for instance, in Israel of Women Can Can, I have a call with them after this, and they're looking for some solidarity in females within the space. There's a group out of Missouri called We Are Jane, who we're also talking about. It's not that we're losing ourselves or changing anything, but we're supporting one another. And I think just leading by example, showing that you can be in two groups, you can be in as many groups as you want. There's no your mind kind of mentality, but hey, what can we do for one another? Because these different locations are where business is being conducted. So why wouldn't we extend our hand out and say, come on in and be part of our circle?
Heidi Whitman: That's great news. Yeah. Heidi, do you have any, so you've been through a variety of businesses in this industry. Are there any particular moments that stick out in your mind that other than the boardroom experiences that you mentioned, but actual business situations where you're worried about survival or something happens when you're thinking, Oh no, no, no, no, no. And like any, all the challenges in a business when you start and grow a business, how do you, how do you navigate all those challenges?
Susan Burns: Yeah, well, um, I think when I had my own company and I was an entrepreneur for a couple of decades before I decided to go and sell my company to a group that took me on as an employee after selling my Naked Leaf brand, I was more concerned about the fact that when you create a brand, you're really the heartbeat of the brand. And I've always believed that. And my passion comes out when I talk about something that I really love. And I was very concerned, too, when I saw my brand being mishandled. It's like watching your baby getting mishandled. And that was really concerning. And I was correct in thinking that the integrity of the brand was reduced because I wasn't the head of the brand anymore. That was one of the moments that really reminded me of my powers and not to forget what I am, because some people can dumb you down or not want you to be a part of things because of their own, um, egotistical or narcissistic means of, of making themselves feel better. And, um, and that was one incident. And then I also saw that when intentions of maybe management or C-suite level, um, board members, et cetera, might not be aligned with the ethics of what this industry should be about. And I saw that a couple of different times and I'm trying to be very politically correct and not mention too many things, but when you see. When you're, when you, as me are doing a cost saving exercise as a strategist is which is something I used to do, find ways of saving money and then told not to. That to me is a big old red flag. Why would we not want to save money? Oh, maybe I'm unveiling. mishandlings of contracts that maybe people have put into place. And you know, you kind of start feeling like this Netflix drama is about to start happening and you don't want to be a part of it. And that really frightened me when I had a reaction that was so negative about trying to save money. That was one of the shocking moments where I was like, wait a minute, who am I working for? And that really led me to wanting to go out on my own. Because when you see you can see some of the intentions. And this is the old cannabis. I feel like there's a new group of cannabis members that are trying to make this not a thing anymore, where we're actually working for the goodness of the health and betterment of people's lives. And that's what we should be in. But some of the ones that thought they'd get rich quick and a quick ROI, like none of that happens. That doesn't happen. So when they have that mentality and they go in every day, like, this is what we're gonna do. I'm like, do you know what space you're working in? Because this isn't like that. I think the misleading, when you see other people mislead, say a customer or an opportunity for a strategic partnership, and you see your colleagues that have hired you misleading, that's really uncomfortable for me. And those were the moments where I was like, how do I get out? What, how do I, how do I survive and pay my rent and take care of my family of five and get out at the same time? And I think as women who lead a household and are caretakers and have to work, And you want to work with ethical people. And I think that sometimes can be a challenge in this space. And it was just something I experienced, but I don't think I'm alone. I think others have too.
Heidi Whitman: I'm quite sure you're not alone in that. And so how did you handle it? What do you do in a situation?
Susan Burns: But how do you do that? It was a risky situation. I was collateral damage on the one that didn't want to save money. Shocking. About 100 of us lost our work that day. at our jobs, really. And a lot of low level people working in the actual facility and in a Latin American country lost their jobs because of the behavior of some of the upper management. And I was treated with respect by the management in the UK. And I was able to take some time and get find another job after that. And I also got out of the one that was bastardizing my brand, because it was just so hard. It was heartbreaking. And I just left on my own accord. And To be honest, now that I've got this amazing network that surrounds me, I feel like my network is my net worth and I'm able to reach out and I'm working for different groups now because I think with technology and innovation, we can actually fine tune this industry even more. So I really want to be at the head of lifting. Like I said before, it's my word. I feel like I'm still standing so I can lift others. And I think that's the goal of all the women that have gone through the ups and downs, the heartache, the the despair, the, how am I going to do this? Or do I still want to do this? And coming back into it, I feel like it's the lift. So I've been consulting on my own now for, I just left another job I finished, um, about two months ago. And now I'm just working for some groups that are really innovative and creating really new pathways to help precision medicine come into play, help our, our streamlining of all of our supply chains around the world. And also trying to help others that are trying to become international. I love that because I am international and I'm a rare, you know, American living over here for so long and being in the, watching the cannabis space grow, you know, there's only maybe one or two of us that have done that over here in like the UK and I've such a cool community. So it's really exciting to be able to, to do that and work on different projects. I'll be announcing more soon, but I can't quite yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Skirting around. All right.
Heidi Whitman: But so can you talk to us about what you do as a consultant? Like what, are you a strategist in a certain area or what? Absolutely.
Susan Burns: Why would I use you, Heidi? And how and when? Well, if you were to look at how you might want, I think internationalization is one of my fine tuned spaces where if you're a brand and you're looking to go into a different region, You know, that's something that I can implement with project management and get it going and getting all the, the, um, adaptations that are needed. If you have a tech product that you're trying to bring into the market for the cannabis space, that might not be necessarily for cannabis, but say for instance, um, I'm supporting a woman who has a DNA kit that helps precision. Medicine come into play where your DNA starts to dictate what you, what you need for your own body. and for what you need for your endocannabinoid system to be balanced. It's groundbreaking. And I'm helping that group called We Decode, and I'm finding different avenues for where that product can go. Should it go into research? I'm exploring that. Or should it go into a B2C sector or a B2B? So those are the types of things when it comes to actual products. When it comes to strategically analyzing a region and understanding the market to help somebody explore whether they want to go into that market, that's how I'm used as well. So I will dive into a region, for instance, say Thailand for just for the sake of it, which is all kinds of up and down right now. But if someone wanted to go into Thailand, I would reach into my network, find the key decision makers and figure out what we can do there, whether it's non-cannabis to begin with and turning into cannabis, et cetera. Just finding the different inroads for people is what I love to do when it comes to creating a revenue stream that might not normally be there for them. You know, finding something unique to implement doesn't necessarily have to be, you know, for instance, animal care, animals and cannabis, it's challenging in many areas. But what if we went in with a botanical product and then help create that product with someone that's something I can do very easily, and then lead it into maybe adding cannabinoids later. So that type of brand development, regional development and strategic development of different revenue streams is something that I absolutely love. It's a puzzle, and I'm a puzzle person, so it's fun.
Heidi Whitman: That's wonderful. To our listeners, this that we're recording with a video on. And you can't see how Heidi's face is lighting up. So it makes me wish we were doing this as audio. But it's fun to watch you speak about this to see how your face lights up when you're talking about the strategy and doing this and doing that. I love it.
Susan Burns: It's what drives me.
Heidi Whitman: How about Heidi, moments in your career so far in the campus industry? your work and life where you've thought this is just so amazingly beyond anything I've ever dreamed possible. Any moments like that?
Susan Burns: Oh yeah, absolutely. When I had my Naked Leaf brand, I actually got my equine range picked up by one of the largest equine distributors for supplements in the U.S. It was It was like a place that I had always admired. It was called SmartPak. I'll never forget the meetings in their offices with the FDA lawyer and all these other people. It was way early days before anything like this happened and they took my brand. And that was a moment where I just felt like, oh my God, I made it. I didn't really make it, but I really thought I did at that moment because I had come up with this in my living room and made it happen. and created something that was really unique for horses because I believe in recovery whilst in motion is more important than recovery. You know, um, acute care prophylaxis is, is more important. So they listened to me and they bought into it. So that was my biggest distributor at the time. And then I also think I got on stage, which after being really nervous about doing public speaking and had such a warm welcome recently in Barcelona, when I talked about all the successes of women, And one of the really cool moments was I went to a random brunch in Berlin a couple of months later, and a girl's like, I saw you in Berlin, I mean, Barcelona, and I wanted to tell you how awesome it was that you didn't go up and complain. You went up and screamed all of our achievements and about women in the space versus Wall Day adversity. And I was like, oh my God, you recognize me? So it was really exciting for me. I was just like, oh, that's so cool. But also it's just watching the women interact on the Empower Her group and find one another. And when we get together, it's like we've already known one another. Those are the moments I live for. And I live for the fact that everyone's communicating in such a supportive manner, which has been my dream, is to find that supportive environment and recreate it. And it's just so cool, because now everything's possible. Absolutely everything. And that's what I can't wait for.
Heidi Whitman: That's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Heidi, what makes you uniquely bodacious?
Susan Burns: I am very driven to spread. It sounds so cliche, but it's really how I was raised, is to be kind. And I find that I'm attracting what I'm putting out. As I age, when I turned 50, I was just like, fuck it. I'm just going to do whatever I want to do. And I'm going to be who I want to be. And I'm never going to be anything that anyone wants me to be. I'm just going to be me. And I like who I am. I'm a kind person. I'm inclusive. I love bringing people together and watching the synergies happen. And I find that to be kind of unique. I think there are other people out there, but this is how I live my life. I live my life as a plant-based eater and a plant-based home with, you know, my animals and my ailing mother, and I'm doing it all. And I'm working different jobs for different groups and keeping that all together, I think is quite a challenge for some, but I find it exhilarating. And I think a lot of people always say, you're so busy all the time, you're so busy, you're always riding your horse, you're playing with your chickens, you're walking your dogs, you're taking care of your mom. And I was like, yeah, no, I know, but that's who I am. I function really well in chaos. And I think one of my unique qualities is I have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, and it absolutely works for me. I've found a way with cannabis to make it work for me.
Heidi Whitman: Found a way to work it, yay, I love that.
Susan Burns: I feel like all that hecticness that makes people nervous when they come near me, They come in my office and see that I have like 30 things going. I know which every one of those things is going. I know exactly what's going on. I don't miss a beat, but I credit my ADHD. It's a superpower.
Heidi Whitman: It's a superpower. There's your next thing. ADHD has a superpower. It's a pretty good one.
Susan Burns: Yeah. Yeah. Throw in some menopause and it's like hyperactive, you know, so it's like hyper, hyperactive and you're able to do it all, you know? So, um, yeah, I love it and it keeps me going. I just feel like I'm so happy to have the energy I have at my age and to have the drive that I still do. I won't ever stop. Not until I get cannabis into the hands of everybody that needs it.
Heidi Whitman: Oh, I love that. I won't ever stop until I get the canvas in the hands of everybody that needs it. That's perfect. It's my true belief that it'll happen.
Susan Burns: Yay. Where can we find you, Heidi? Where can our listeners find you? Well, right now I'm on LinkedIn under Heidi Whitman. Um, and I think that's probably the best way to find me right now is on LinkedIn. And I'm open to talking to anyone who is interested in joining Empower Her, interested in getting some consulting services from an American living overseas. And of course, if you have any questions about the veterinary aspect or you might be in the veterinary industry and you're looking to get some education as well as some product, I'm super happy to talk to anyone that has animals in mind as much as humans. Awesome.
Heidi Whitman: That's Heidi Whitman, W-H-I-T-M-A-N. And you can find her on LinkedIn. Such a thrill to have you, Heidi. Really a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much, Susan. This was the best.
Susan Burns: What a great way to end my day. Thank you so much.