"From Shy Child to Cannabis Champion: Cynthia Cabrera's Bodacious Journey" Susan Burns is joined by Cynthia Cabrera, Chief Strategy Officer at Hometown Hero, director of the Hemp Industries Association and Chair of the Cannabinoids Council, to discuss various topics related to the cannabis industry. They delve into Cynthia's background, her journey into the hemp sector, and her experiences with Hometown Hero.
"From Shy Child to Cannabis Champion: Cynthia Cabrera's Bodacious Journey"
Susan Burns is joined by Cynthia Cabrera, Chief Strategy Officer at Hometown Hero, director of the Hemp Industries Association and Chair of the Cannabinoids Council, to discuss various topics related to the cannabis industry. They delve into Cynthia's background, her journey into the hemp sector, and her experiences with Hometown Hero. Cynthia shares insights on the challenges faced by the hemp industry, including legal battles and regulatory hurdles, particularly in Texas. She also highlights the importance of unity and collaboration within the cannabis industry, emphasizing the need for inclusivity and support for small businesses, women, minorities, veterans, and farmers. Throughout the conversation, Cynthia's bold and bodacious personality shines through as she provides candid commentary on the state of the industry and her experiences within it.
https://thehia.org/abouthia/board-and-staff/
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Hi, this is your podcast host, Susan Burns as a cannabis lawyer by profession. Nothing delights me more than showcasing bodacious women in cannabis. Today, we are talking with Cynthia Cabrera, Hometown Heroes Chief Strategy Officer. Chief Strategy Officer is a C suite position reserved for only the most creative and intriguing, so we are in for a thought provoking conversation today.
Among many other accomplishments that Cynthia can tell us about, she's a director for the Camp Industries Association. Check. Among many other accomplishments, Cynthia, Cynthia is the director for HAMP Industries Association. And she was recently appointed as [00:01:00] chair of the Cannabinoids Council. Welcome, Cynthia.
Thank you so much for having me, Susan. This is really an honor. You know, I just really love the work that you do and I really look up to you. So thank you for including me. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for that. I, um, Cynthia, you and I have spoken before in connection with some industry, um, matters and, uh, My hat's off to you.
It's just an honor to have you here. And, you know, when I do these podcast conversations, I usually end with a signature question about what makes you uniquely bodacious because it's bodacious women and cannabis with you. I want to start off with that question and say, Cynthia, let's lead off with what makes you bodacious?
Uh, well, you will be happy to know that in preparation for this podcast, I actually looked up the definition of the [00:02:00] word bodacious because I was talking to somebody about it last night. Did you see your picture there when you looked it up? I didn't, but I was like, Hey, wait a minute. Because I remember like, there used to be like a boat.
You may have to edit this out, you know, people used to say stuff like bodacious ta tas and I was like, well, wait a minute. And so I looked it up and so, you know, I was talking to somebody and so they looked it up and he said, well, bodacious actually means bold and audacious and like fearless and like, you know, out front and you know, whatever.
And I was like, oh yeah, I can totally get with that. So, I mean, I love the word bodacious. I mean, I am just because. I mean, my personality, but also, um, just in our industry, you cannot be a shrinking violet. Like, you just have to fight for what you want. Yes, unless you're a scientist in the back room, it's hard to say.
[00:03:00] It's hard to be. Yeah, that's a whole other thing. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you may find this hard to believe. Pretty much everybody does. I was a very shy child. Like, I never spoke to anybody. I didn't leave my house. I was terrified of everything and everybody. And then one day, like, you know, the hand of God came down and said, that's enough of that.
Put it up on this other path, which has been great. Okay. Did the hand of God put any cannabis in your? A wish.
I had to white knuckle it. So tell us, tell us about what, how you, how you arrived in the cannabis sector and, and, and what you're doing with hometown heroes and all your work in the hemp. Side of cannabis, so I've been in unregulated industries. And when I mean, unregulated, I mean, federally unregulated [00:04:00] industry since like, 2011 and, uh, when I was back in the space and working on all all that fun stuff, everybody who is.
Yeah, I still have PTSD from it, but, you know, it was super exciting and I made great relationships and I learned so much and, you know, whatever. And I was running a trade association in 2015. Well, in 2016, I was running a trade association and I quit and I had other, I decided to go into consulting. And so I had clients lined up and that kind of thing.
And I think, like, my press release went out, like, on a Monday and Monday afternoon. I'm getting a phone call from the CEO of hometown hero. Who's like, I see you're a free agent. We want to hire you. And so, yeah, I was in my car. And he was like, we just have to have you he's like, I don't know why, you know, [00:05:00] the trade association allowed you to quit.
He's like, but we want you and we have to have you. And so I started consults for hometown era. So I've been with them since 2016 and in 2022, they convinced me to move to Austin, Texas to be in house. And so, um, they had transitioned to cannabis products in 2019. So I had been working with him on that, and then it was just getting to be like a lot.
And so the CEO had been handling a lot of the stuff and he was just like, I need to pass the torch. So that's, that's how I got here. So tell us about Hometown Hero. I know a bit about you, but tell, tell our listeners about Hometown Hero. Hometown Hero is the funnest place I've ever worked. I hate working for other people.
And I remember when Lucas called me to offer me the job, I said, I'm a terrible employee. You know this. This is why I consult, I said, and I, I just, I don't do the like [00:06:00] button down everybody in their cubicle. Like, you know, that's like, it's just not me. And Lucas was like, do whatever you want. Just come work for us.
And I was like, okay, experiment and I have to tell you that it has been fantastic. Aside from the fact that the people are just incredibly nice people, I mean, everybody's just like super nice at the company, but this company is just like innovative and edgy and willing to take risks. Although we also weigh risks, you know, we, we take our risk temperature periodically, uh, frequently, I should say, and it's just like, it's great.
It. I mean, everybody is just, and like I have never worked for somebody where like, I'll call Lucas, I'll call our CEO and I'm like, I'm thinking about suing somebody. And he's like, do it. You know,
Well, as a lawyer I can appreciate that one. I like [00:07:00] that. That's great. And usually, you know, people are like, well, we need to talk to accounting or, well, you know, I don't know. And I cannot tell you the number of companies. That have said, hey, I'll contribute to a lawsuit, but I don't want my name on it.
Right? Because they're afraid of retribution or whatever. And like, we're willing to just go out there and like. Suck it, people. We're suing, you know, and it's worked out really well for us. So tell us about the products that Hometown Heroes, uh, is, um, is in and then, and then let's talk about those lawsuits because as far as I've seen, you're batting a thousand, Cynthia, and your choice of when to enter.
So, um, that's a pretty good record, but tell us about the products and then the litigation and why that's so important to the industry. And, and I know that you don't choose lightly, like just to sue to sue because you always have very good reason for your litigation. Um, and it's good that Lucas [00:08:00] trusts you.
And I'm sure he, that's why he does, but talk to us about, about the hemp. The hemp is the hometown here always is . So we have mostly edible products and I mean, I have to say, our stuff tastes great, which is like number one. And it's hemp derived, right? It's all MP derived. Derived cannabinoids. Yeah. We have a farm in San Antonio, uh, that grows all our stuff and everything is manufactured there.
And then we do our distribution, but. I mean, our number one is, you know, quality. Number two is it tastes great. And it's, we don't have, um, what do you call them? Repeat customers. We have loyal customers. Like they will purchase our products, even though somebody else's products are on sale. Right. So, I mean, that's a mark of a good product, right?
[00:09:00] Shoot. You froze. Yep. Nope, you're on frozen. So let's just take a pause here and then you can start over with, um, your last. Sentence, I guess it's like when you have a face cream or shampoo or some consumer product that you use that you're just attached to and that is the only product that you will use.
And if it goes on back order, you'll wait for it. Thankfully, we never have stuff on back order, but it's the same kind of thing. So we have repeat customers, but we have loyal customers. Like, they will just purchase our products. And I think a lot of it has to do aside from the quality and how good they taste.
A lot of it has to do with the fact that they know. We fight for them that were like out there where, you know, we just. We take a stand. And so a lot of our customers communicate to us that and retailers and end consumers communicate to us that they know we're taking a stand for something. And we're, we're, we're [00:10:00] supporting them in 1 way or another.
And they appreciate that. So, so I think the, the hemp industry in terms of, of edibles and, and beverages and consumables, and the growth of hemp products specifically for. That industry is, is still a small industry and it's, it is hometown. So the hometown hero label, I see you're marching right into, um, and so, but what are the issues that, that, that you have to fight for that you have to take a stand on?
Well, I mean, we can talk about Texas. For example, so Texas legalized hemp. They adopted the, uh, their version of the USDA hemp program in 2019. Um, and immediately hometown Harris started, uh, making products. And then in 20, so hemp derived. Consumers can have a nice gummies. Okay. Yeah. And actually, I should take that back.
The company [00:11:00] started with CBD products and the market kind of, like, shut up and then it cratered. And then the company moved on to the hemp derived cannabinoids. And so everything was going great. There was a New York Times article about, you know, the explosion of, you know, Delta 8 and hemp derived cannabinoids and that kind of thing.
And then the next thing, you know, the state of Texas decided to ban. Um, Delta 8 products, and so we ended up in a lawsuit, the company ended up in a lawsuit and filed for an injunction, which was which we won and. But the basis, and I, I always joke, you know, we, we got a lot of attention about that lawsuit, but it's a, it's not a sexy lawsuit, right?
It was a, an Administrative Procedures Act violation that got us that injunction because, so the state Oh come on, that's not sexy?
Administrative procedures. I know a PA violations. Find me something [00:12:00] sexier just thinking about it. Right? But people are like, oh, my God, your lawsuit is so amazing. And I'm like, it's not a sexy lawsuit, you know, but we were in the right because they went about it the wrong way. And so we got this injunction.
So what did the injunction mean for you and for the industry? Well, we couldn't sell for about two weeks. We, so we lost millions of dollars, couldn't sell until we got that injunction and it, it meant the same for the retailers and other sellers. Yeah. And our lawsuit, you know, sometimes people will sue and the lawsuit is only for them.
Right it only covers their products or their business and our lawsuit allowed everyone in the state of Texas to continue selling. Right and so we're really proud of that. We, we didn't try to manipulate. So it was only for us. We did it for everybody. And so. For, like, 2 [00:13:00] weeks, couldn't sell anything. So millions of dollars down the drain and then we got the injunction awarded and we had it for 2 years and the state appeals.
And so we had the appeal hearing was right after Labor Day. So, September of 2023, and all the appellate lawyers had been, um. Prepping and, you know, preparing me that we were going to have this 3 panel, uh, 3 judge panel that was going to hear our case. And then it was going to be 6789 months before we would hear anything because the appellate court moves very slowly.
No, three weeks later, we had a decision and they upheld the injunction and it was like, wait, what? Yeah, so I mean, we were really, really well prepared. I mean, we put a lot of hours into it and it was a lot of work, but was that the 8th circuit? Or was that, was that a Texas Texas? It was the Texas 3rd circuit, something, whatever.
Now I'm even blanking out [00:14:00] on it. Okay, and then I move on. Um, but it was, it was, it was Texas. It was not federal. It was state. So that's amazing too, because Texas is known for being very conservative. Yes. And three weeks and just like that. And we went to the hearing and we had a couple of witnesses who had been at the original hearing who came because they wanted to be there, including a veteran who had testified the last time.
And so it was amazing. And I, the fact that they turned it around in three weeks speaks to the strength of the argument. We haven't had a trial. We haven't been able to even get to the merits of the case. And again, not a particularly sexy case, but I love that. They turned it around in 3 weeks. Uh, in January, January 3rd, the state appealed the appeal to the Texas Supreme Court.
And so they want the case heard all over again. And so we're in the middle of that now dealing with that. Stay tuned everybody. They tuned [00:15:00] and after that, I guess it's
It's a big state and big.
So, um, tell us more about, about your involvement in the hemp industry in general and, and the, the issues that you're working on and why it's important to the cannabis industry overall. Because we, there are 2, I guess there are 2 camps, but I, I think it should be 1. That's my personal opinion. But, um, you know, so there's the marijuana side and the hemp side, which marijuana seems to be co opting the name of cannabis.
Um, and but anyway, so for ease of distinction, I'll talk about hemp and marijuana side and your primary in the hemp. Okay. So, as I said, I started off in the space and so back then it was vape and there was a separation between tobacco [00:16:00] and vape. And so I started in 2011 and it wasn't until 2016 that the products that the products were classified as vape.
You know, other tobacco products and in the space, and I should write a book one day, but in the space, there were all these cigarette. Yes, I that is my goal. Uh, there were all these cigarette companies. So cigarette makers were sitting back and kind of watching what happened. And I remember I was working for this company and they decided that we should have a trade association in the city.
Because we really needed to, like, you know, deal with the FDA and we needed to, like, speak in numbers and all this other stuff. And so this trade association was founded with 4 members to start almost immediately. 1 of the members drops out because they were purchased by a cigarette company.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's just a number. Yeah. Here's a good number. Three is great. Until three became two because another one of them dropped out [00:17:00] because they were purchased by a cigarette company and it was like, come on, it was, you know, it was just like, and so the cigarette companies, because of everything that happened back in the day, they don't belong to associations, right?
So then these, these vape companies that they had purchased couldn't belong to this association. But in those. Five years that I was doing that, I ended up working with a lot of the cigarette companies, cigarette slash tobacco companies. And they are so smart, regardless of what you think about cigarette smoking.
I've never smoked a cigarette in my life. Uh, but regardless of whether you smoke or don't smoke or what you think about it or not, they have the smartest people there. I mean, they have analysts, they have lawyer. I mean, they are so smart. They are constantly gaming things out. The only thing is they move super slowly, right?
Cause they're huge. They're huge. Exactly. They do not pivot like just don't. Um, and so there were a lot of parallels between the vape space and the cigarette companies and then hemp [00:18:00] and marijuana companies. Right. So you have these big behemoth marijuana companies that are literally trying to stomp the hell out of hemp companies because they perceive them to be either competition, or they had a, they imagined and you know, idyllic future where they were the only players around.
Right. And it's just not shaking out that way. Right. 2018 kind of like, screwed things up for them and they're like, well, wait a minute. But to their credit, they've spent many, many millions of dollars and a lot of capital and energy on making sure that hemp gets stamped out wherever they have the opportunity.
So the, the, the umbrella of the word cannabis is super interesting. So we have an entire marketing department and they use the word cannabis all the time because, you know, when you do focus groups and all that, you know, people know what the cannabis is and they're interested in it, but they might not want marijuana, but nobody really knows, you know, a lot of people [00:19:00] don't know what hemp is.
And so cannabis is a good, and it is the plant, right? It's the umbrella plant. And so it's, it's accurate. But it cuts both ways, right? So to your point earlier about how they should all be under one umbrella, it's cool, except that there should be regulatory differences because one is federally legal and the other one is federally illegal, right?
And I, I encourage marijuana companies all the time to get into the hemp state. Because they're losing their shirts. They're losing money like nobody's business. I read an article last night about a very large marijuana company that has lost so much money. They're being sued by multiple investors. I have no idea how they're going to crawl out of this hole.
Like, it's unbelievable. Yeah, and you do read about that all the time, about the, um, MSOs, multi state operators in the marijuana industry just going, having a hard time staying afloat. And the thing is, they look at the hemp industry. Which, you know, to [00:20:00] your point, also to your point, is pretty small, right? We have, this is the beginning of the industry, and it's pretty small, but the marijuana industry wants to blame hemp for all their ills.
Right. And really what they're saying is, oh, no, no, no, no in the states where recreational marijuana is legal. It's because states have rights. And then they go to the federal government and they go, but, hey, this hemp thing, this can't exist. So states shouldn't have rights. And so, like, they talk out of both sides of their mouth and it's like, hey, You know, just join the hemp space or just like do your own thing.
And to be fair, and here comes the like bold and audacious part or whatever. They kind of did it to themselves because they agreed to all these state regulations that were so burdensome and so onerous because they wanted to get into business. They spent millions of dollars and it turns out they can't make any money.
Whose fault is that?[00:21:00]
Well, I'm going to take that as a rhetorical question and not answer. Oh, we're not doing Q& A today? Okay. Alright. That's fine. Maybe next time. I don't know.
No, but I, I, yeah, I see your point. And, and I'm, to me, the water's warm. Come on in. Absolutely. There's plenty of space in the hemp space for everybody. Hey, marijuana folks, you're not making money over there? Come over here. The water's fine. It's all good. There's room in the playground. I am, but I, I actually thought that for a long time when I first started in the industry and I was reading, uh, which seems like a hundred years ago, but it was only three or four.
Um, but, and I was reading about the, the tension between the hemp side and the marijuana side. And I'm like, I, and somebody went off on me once in a conference call and said, well, you have people, you're not taxed and therefore blah, [00:22:00] blah, blah. And you're, you can deduct your taxes like a normal business and 280 and, and I'm like.
Okay, well, so is this misery loves company. . I mean, yeah. I don't get it. Join forces and they're like crabs. You know when the, when the crab is trying to get out of the pot and the other crabs are pulling them down, it's like that . Exactly. Why do you want, why do you want us to be, this is what I always say.
Don't make it harder for us. Let's make it easier for you. Exactly. Like, we're totally supportive of that. Why, why do we have to, why do, why do we have to suffer in order for you guys? And because you're not going to make any money. Because you're not talking about changing your overly burdensome regulations.
You're just talking about killing us. And I'll tell you something else. Marijuana, the industry in general, if you look at the things that they say and the actions that they take and trying to shut down hemp and, you know, over regulated and all that other stuff. [00:23:00] They hate farmers, they hate hemp farmers, they hate women, they hate minorities, they hate veterans.
Because those are all the people that they're looking to disenfranchise and shut down. They're looking at shutting down small businesses, they're looking at putting women out of work, they're looking at putting farmers, hemp farmers, out of business. Every time they talk about trying to regulate hemp to their benefit, They're talking about putting thousands, tens of thousands of people out of work, out of business, and just out of it for their own convenience.
Just come over here to us. New York State. It's in writing. When they had that lawsuit, when they issued those emergency orders, I want to say like June or something, and then later on there was a lawsuit. And in there, I mean, I was reading through the paperwork, and New York State admitted, they agreed. that they had additional regulations around [00:24:00] hemp for the financial benefit of the marijuana industry.
Are you kidding me? No, that's We've seen that happen here in, in Minnesota because hemp has been, hemp derived cannabinoids have been legal for, since 2019. With, I can, we can talk about all the ins and outs of that long song and dance, but, um, last, last year during the session when they, the, the legalized marijuana, a.
k. a. cannabis, The, it can't be, there's no dispensaries until 2025. So what they did was they put the 10 percent tax on. The hemp industry sales tax to support the newly formed Office of Cannabis Management, which in I think the month after it was enacted and impose the tax was something like 400, 000 was taken in and I'm guessing everybody hadn't been able to register that quickly because when they do it, they do a turnaround time.
Like, okay, here, it's a regulation. [00:25:00] And before, I, I, um, I don't know what to say. I don't know what the, um, the, the, uh, the, uh, uh, the, the, uh, the, uh, the the, the, uh, the, um, A lot of small businesses even know that it's in existence, they're, they're in violation of it. Um, but yeah, so that happened and, and we had a lot of the, the things that you're talking about in New York happen and, and overall, um, adverse impact on hemp businesses and specialized legislation.
For the medical part. And, um, yeah, it's an interesting, it's an interesting journey. And I think to your, your point that you made Cynthia about the disparate impact of this, of these efforts, like they're the beauty of the hemp industry. And what I've always liked about representing clients in it and tell me what you think with your experience is that it is, it's so diverse and creative.
And there are a lot of it. You know, so there is a lot of women owned, a lot of people of color, a lot of, [00:26:00] and a lot of white people too, but you know, it's, it's everybody. It's America. I love that there's room for everybody. I think that's fantastic. And you know, you want to know what's not sexy? What?
Marijuana. Want to know why marijuana is not sexy tell us all those pioneer Tell me more all those pioneers and all those bad asses that were out there trying to get marijuana Legalized have more since to these corporate button down boring Dudes who only care, you know, looking at the bottom line and have no problem, like the freedom that all those activists and, and, and people were fighting for back in the day that has disappeared.
That shit is gone. It is over. It has become this corporatized giant that literally wants to step on everybody else. And I mean, I, again, I go back to the tobacco space. I liken it to tobacco when the [00:27:00] tobacco, um, tobacco didn't come under FDA's purview until 2010. So all that time before that, tobacco was unregulated.
It, FDA didn't get it until 2010. Anyway, so in the history of writing the rules for the tobacco industry, the tobacco companies, cigarette companies participated in it, right? And there's a process called the PMTA, it's the Pre Market Tobacco Authorization. And it means that you have to submit a bunch of forms and reports and all this other stuff to the FDA.
I'm really dumbing it down. To the FDA for approval before you can put a tobacco product on the market. Well, all the cigarette companies got grandfathered in, right? But then you get the vape products. Yeah, shocking. You get the vape products. And now the vape products are subject to PMTAs, which were written for cigarettes.
So you can't, it's almost nearly impossible. It's tens of millions of dollars to get a product approved, right? [00:28:00] So they stacked the deck against the, against ever having a new, less harmful technology, technology driven product with these, with a law. And so here we have the same thing happening in the marijuana space.
Above 0. 3 percent Delta nine THC attempting to have regulatory capture of the market through their burdensome rules, right? They got screwed. So they want to screw us. They're not making money. So they want to take our money. Well, you know, we employ a lot of women and minorities and veterans and farmers and, you know, why do you get to do that?
Where, where, where is the spirit from back in the day? Well, they would fight for that freedom to have the plant be free. What happened? Yes. I know it's not a Q& A. I know it's not Q& A. Peace and love. Peace and love, Rezeko. That's done. It's, it's like, it's like war. They're like terrorizing us everywhere we [00:29:00] go.
And there you have it. Did that sound harsh? You don't sound harsh, Cynthia.
You sound like you're telling, like you're bodacious. And you're telling it like it is according to Cynthia Cabrera. Thank you and I appreciate you, uh, saying Cabera. Thank you very much. Huh? My pleasure. So do you wanna hear a funny story about my last Yes, I do tell it.
When I was in the vape space, when I first started, I took over as executive director of this trade association. And, um, we had hired this federal lobbying team and there were like 13 people on the team. And then we had all these lawyers and all these people or whatever. And so we had our 1st, big get together, you know, like, in this giant room.
And so they go around the room and everybody starts [00:30:00] introducing themself and I am the last person to introduce myself and the president of our board, Phil was sitting next to me. And so he goes and he introduces himself and then I am the last person. And so I said, I'm Cynthia. Cabrera. And I, you know, what my title was or whatever.
And then we moved on to the rest of it. And Phil leans over to me and he says, Cabrera, way to stick it to Whitey.
And I just burst out laughing.
Obviously not my attention. I was just saying it the way my whole family says it, you know, and uh, it was, it was pretty funny . So, and feel free to edit that out. . We're leaving that one in. Cynthia. That is great. And it fits in with this whole. This, this whole conversation we've just had. So ladies and gentlemen, [00:31:00] you've heard it here first.
Why marijuana is no longer sexy from Cynthia Cabrera, who knows how to stick it to Whitey. That is a terrible tagline.
Well, I was trying to summarize. How would you like it to be? Oh, no, it's, it's just, just leave the part where I said that's a terrible tagline.
People will be like, that woman is a total racist. She's trying to speak it to Whitey. Well, it has to be in context. We'll leave it to the podcast producers to decide what they leave in and what they take out. Okay. Where can people go? What did you say? Tell them to treat me with love. How could they do anything but?
You're very lovable. [00:32:00] They could be marijuana. So. Okay. Well, we'll see. We'll listen to the final version and we'll see who edited it. Um, so Cynthia, where can people find you? Because I know they're going to want to. Uh, I'm on LinkedIn. Or they can email me at Cynthia at hometownhero. com. All right. That sounds great.
Thank you so much for spending some time with us today. I love talking with you as always and I know our listeners will have plenty to think about after they listen to this. And I promised an intriguing conversation and we've had just that. Thank you for delivering and making an honest woman out of me.
I can only tell it like it is, Susan. Thank you for having me on and, uh, I'll keep you updated about the hate mail.
Okay. Please do. I hope [00:33:00] you don't get any hate mail, Cynthia. Thank you. I really sincerely do because you, um, have been in this industry and you're doing Some very good and necessary work, and I know that you want the best for everybody in the industry. So, I certainly hope you don't get any hate mail.
Including marijuana. Yes, the whole industry. We're all friends, should be, should be friends. Should be friends. Yes. Yes, I agree. So once again, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Susan.[00:34:00]