The Legal Landscape of Cannabis: Insights from a Lawyer-Turned-Industry Innovator Allie Faver, a dynamic and insightful lawyer-turned-cannabis industry professional, joins Susan Burns to discuss her journey from a traditional legal background to the forefront of the cannabis business. This episode is not only inspiring but also a testament to the evolving landscape of the industry.
In the latest episode of the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Allie Faver, a dynamic and insightful lawyer-turned-cannabis industry professional. Allie's journey from a traditional legal background to the forefront of the cannabis business is not only inspiring but also a testament to the evolving landscape of the industry.
Allie shared her unique story, beginning with her roots in New York, where she completed her education and started her career in labor and employment law. The pandemic, however, prompted a significant reevaluation of her professional and personal goals, leading her to pivot into the cannabis industry. She and her now-husband made the bold decision to move to St. Louis, where she joined CBD Kratom, the largest cannabis and Kratom retailer in the United States.
Despite her initial lack of industry-specific experience, Allie's passion for being a business partner and her eagerness to learn propelled her into a successful role within the company. She candidly discussed the challenges and learning curves she faced, as well as the cultural shock of relocating from New York to the Midwest.
Our conversation delved into the regulatory battles that the hemp industry faces, particularly against the marijuana industry. Allie highlighted the importance of common-sense regulation and the need for the hemp and marijuana sectors to join forces rather than compete. She emphasized the detrimental impact that current legislative efforts have on small businesses and farmers, advocating for consumer choice and transparent labeling.
Allie also touched on the various products offered by CBD Kratom, from microdosing gummies to high-potency smokables, catering to a diverse customer base. She underscored the importance of providing consumers with a range of choices to suit their individual needs and preferences.
As a woman in the cannabis industry, Allie acknowledged the male-dominated nature of the field but expressed optimism about the increasing presence of female leaders. She encouraged listeners, especially women, to boldly pursue their interests in the industry, despite potential stigmas.
Lastly, Allie provided insights into Kratom, a plant native to Southeast Asia, explaining its effects and the industry's push for responsible regulation. She shared her contact information for those interested in learning more about her work or the products offered by CBD Kratom.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of law, business, and cannabis, as well as those seeking inspiration to make a bold career change. Allie Faver's story is a powerful example of the opportunities that arise when we embrace change and pursue our passions with determination and an open mind.
Allie Faver is CBD Kratom's General Counsel, leading the St. Louis-based hemp and kratom retailer's legal matters. Allie additionally oversees the Company's government relations efforts, helping to push common sense cannabis- and kratom-related regulations at the federal, state and local levels. To aid in this effort, Allie is on the board of directors for the Hemp Industries Association ("HIA"), US Hemp Roundtable, and the Texas Hemp Coalition.
A native New Yorker, Allie received her Bachelor's Degree from the University at Albany and her Juris Doctor from Hofstra University. She previously worked for an Am Law 100 law firm in New York before moving to St. Louis to join CBD Kratom in January of 2021.
Allie currently lives in St. Louis with her husband, Nathan, and their dog, Bear."
TIMESTAMPS
00:00:16 - Introduction to Bodacious Women in Cannabis
00:00:33 - Host Susan Burns Welcomes Listeners
00:01:03 - Guest Introduction: Allie Favor
00:01:28 - Allie's Journey to the Cannabis Industry
00:02:39 - Decision to Move and Join CBD Kratom
00:03:42 - Regulatory Challenges in Cannabis
00:04:41 - Hemp vs. Marijuana Industry Dynamics
00:05:18 - Consumer Choice and Product Lines
00:06:02 - Legal Distinctions in Cannabis
00:07:42 - Industry Impact on Small Businesses
00:08:33 - Shift in Marijuana Industry Players
00:09:27 - Big Pharma's Influence on Cannabis
00:10:39 - The Plight of Hemp Farmers
00:11:40 - Regulations Impacting Hemp Industry
00:12:25 - Accessibility and Consumer Choice
00:13:15 - The Future of Hemp Feed for Farmers
00:14:12 - Tax Challenges in the Marijuana Industry
00:14:55 - Consumer Preferences and Dosage Variations
00:16:09 - CBD Kratom's Diverse Product Range
00:17:49 - Microdosing and High-Potency Products
00:18:42 - Dispensaries vs. Hemp Retailers
00:19:13 - Distribution Challenges for Hemp Products
00:20:25 - Beverage Market Dynamics in Minnesota
00:21:44 - Stigma and Education in Cannabis
00:22:35 - The Legal Landscape and Learning Curve
00:23:12 - Misconceptions and Legislative Hurdles
00:24:05 - The Irony of Restrictive Regulations
00:24:46 - The Role of Kratom in the Industry
00:27:48 - Allie's Experience as a Woman in Cannabis
00:30:25 - Advice for Aspiring Industry Professionals
00:31:08 - Defining 'Bodacious' in Professional Context
00:33:18 - Contact Information and Closing Remarks
announcer: Welcome to the Bodacious Women in Cannabis podcast, the show where the bold and brilliant women cannabis business leaders share their journey and their expertise. Here's your host, Susan Burns.
Allie Faver: Hi, and welcome to Bodacious Women in Cannabis. I am Susan Burns, your podcast host. As a lawyer by day, nothing delights me more than highlighting bodacious women in cannabis. And today we are particularly thrilled to be having a conversation with Allie Favor. And Allie is the general counsel for CBD Kratom. Welcome, Allie.
Susan Burns: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be on with you.
Allie Faver: Yeah, I'm looking forward to this. So Ali, you're a lawyer, I'm a lawyer. So generally, people think it's going to be a boring conversation, but it's a cannabis conversation. So it can't be boring. Tell us about your journey as a lawyer and coming into the cannabis world and what attracted you to CBD Kratom and now, you know, a little bit about how you got there.
Susan Burns: Sure. So I have a bit of a unique story I'd like to say. So born and raised in New York, undergrad, law school, all in New York, went to work for a national management side labor and employment law firm right out of law school. Did that for several years and like COVID affected everyone. It really made me reevaluate what was important for my professional growth and just personal interests. And what I realized I love most about my job was being a business partner to the businesses or companies, whoever our client was. So I took that time during COVID to really assess, you know, my whole life, not just professionally, where I was living, what I wanted out of my future. My boyfriend, now husband, at the time he went completely remote, was like, let's just pick somewhere to move. Like we have this opportunity. wherever you get a job first, whatever piques your interest, that's where we're going to go. So we thought about it for a few months. We made it's the infamous detailed spreadsheet that bunch of factors. Yes.
Allie Faver: I've never been able to do that. Good for you.
Susan Burns: Okay. So, um, we landed St. Louis was one of the top three cities and I applied to CBD Kratom, which is the largest cannabis and Kratom retailer in the United States. Something I had no background in. Just from being a casual user of the product, that's really the only background I had. And after meeting with the company president and vice president, I just felt like it would be an incredible fit. And while I had some uphill battles in terms of learning the products and the industry, I knew that I could be a very good business partner. So I left the job and moved to St. Louis. Three weeks later, it was my first time living somewhere not in New York. Being in the Midwest, it was a big culture shock, but now I've been there for over three years and fighting the daily fight for the hemp industry and the cannabis world.
Allie Faver: Oh, there you go. Well, tell us a little bit more about that daily fight for the hemp industry and the cannabis world.
Susan Burns: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, as everyone is very well aware in the industry, there's both the issues we deal with on the regulatory level, whether it's the state level, whether it's the impending farm bill, whether it's at a local level, just really dealing with educating a lot of regulators and lawmakers, just what our products are, what they do, the benefit of common sense regulation. So we have that front that we're dealing with. And then I know some of your other guests have spoke about it, so I won't belabor the point, but the issues that the hemp industry has been fighting against the marijuana industry, just really trying to make it a come one, come all, whereas we've seen the marijuana industry is funneling hundreds of thousands of dollars into their well-being efforts to monopolize the cannabis plant as a whole, to make it really inaccessible for a bunch of small businesses to retain their products and livelihood. So just really dealing with all of that.
Allie Faver: Talk a little bit more about that, if you would, because I think that's a point that gets lost is how does that, you know, I think there's this sort of assumption that once marijuana is legalized or cannabis, as they like to call it, once marijuana is legalized, then, you know, we don't need hemp products. They can just go away. So you made what I think is a really important point about that there are two distinct product lines and how, what the impact is on small, small businesses that are in the hemp industry. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Susan Burns: Yeah, absolutely. So I, this is a great cocktail conversation, um, discussed with my family and friends. It's all the rage. So what's interesting is we have the issue of what is federally legal and federally illegal. The cannabis plant is the genus of the plant and what distinguishes what's federally legal and what's illegal is the percentage of Delta THC on a dry weight basis. If you have a plant that has above 0.3% Delta nine THC on a dry weight basis, that's what everyone knows as below.
Allie Faver: That's what's the Delta nine is what's regarded as the psychoactive component of the plant that gets people high.
Susan Burns: Yes. That's certain levels. Yeah.
Allie Faver: Yeah. Okay.
Susan Burns: Yeah, and then everything else, if it doesn't meet that definition, is considered hemp. So you have the whole gamut. You have everything from non-psychotropic CBD products to what everyone's reading in the news, probably about Delta-8, Delta-10, THCA, THCP, then there's THCV. There's over a hundred cannabinoids that are actually in the cannabis plant, and Congress chose one to focus on, to make that distinguishment. And right now, that's the arena we're all playing in is that's the federal laws, and granted we have the state laws and regulations peppered in there, but that's the major difference is we're, we meaning CBD Kratom, we only have hemp-derived cannabis products. So we're operating in a federally legal space, whereas marijuana, medical marijuana are operating in technically a federally illegal space. Now, we want the whole plant to be available, right? We want everyone to have access, common sense regulations, right? We don't want kids having access to this. We want consumers to know what they are consuming, transparent labeling, testing to make sure there's no pesticides, heavy metals, that it is what it says it is. The potency is the level that it claims to be. But we're just dealing with a lot, you know, the marijuana industry deals with a lot of burdensome, over-regulatory issues. And instead of fighting those issues, they're fighting their hemp brothers, so to speak. And that's, if we just joined forces and helped each other, we, I think, would get a lot further on the business side, small businesses, farmers, everyone who, their livelihood depends on this. And also the consumers would really benefit.
Allie Faver: So. More product, more choice. Yep. But so is then are you suggesting that the hemp industry is for smaller players, whereas the marijuana industry is for bigger players? Because what what we grew up with was the marijuana industry was, you know, was smaller, unless you're talking about large scale, like cartels and things like that. But it was you know, who you knew in the neighborhood who got it from their friend who had a farm. And those weren't, look, it, marijuana wasn't typically a large, large scale players. So where does that small business thing come in, in the handle that you referenced?
Susan Burns: Yeah, no, I think that's a fabulous point. I think it's one that's very overlooked. I think the, narrative has shifted. I think marijuana was how you said it to be. It was these really small players and they've now since grown into these corporate conglomerates, these multi-state operators, these MSOs. You see that there are these giant corporations and now businesses have filled the void where the small businesses used to be, so to speak. So that's what you really see. You don't, you don't really see small business people or energy in the marijuana space. It's really all these giant conglomerates now and what, you know, big pharma used to be against marijuana is now big marijuana against hemp. You're really seeing that paradigm shift and it's unfortunate, but it's pretty cyclical.
Allie Faver: And do you think there's, you said cyclical and I'm going to get cynical. Do you think there's any element of big pharma in that big mad marijuana space? Because what I'm seeing in Minnesota at least, which is where I am located, is that the control is really with, we have two licensed medical dispensaries and that's where the control is.
Susan Burns: Yeah, so I think Big Pharma is obviously losing some money to the herbal side of just the medicinal industry in general, and that does include marijuana and hemp. I think they'll try to keep their hands on and control whatever they can. If you're going to let all these small businesses offer choice and prosper, that takes that out of Big Pharma's hands. So what are they going to do? They're going to try to control gatekeep whatever they can, as we've seen, right? It sounds a little conspiracy theory-esque, but I think there's some really valid points in there. Like you said, Minnesota is one of those states where you can really blatantly see the structure. I'm headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri, so we're dealing with our own fight at the moment in the legislature and dealing with the state of Missouri's marijuana group and dealing with that, them trying to gatekeep those products and eliminate consumer choice. And it's what people don't realize too is it not only affects retailers, right? Everyone just thinks of the retailers because that's where they get their finished goods. This is a huge impact on farmers. Huge. Probably them. Yeah, probably them more than retailers. Um, and they have a lot more regulations that they need to abide by. They have a lot more procedures, um, fiscally, maybe not the same demand, but they are the ones that are impacted by this. significantly and I feel like they get left out of the conversation pretty often. So that's something I would really want people to remember as well.
Allie Faver: Yeah, you know, I think about that a lot because, you know, I've been working with, I've worked both representing businesses in marijuana and and hemp. But in the hemp industry, I've seen, you know, these regulations, they keep trying to squish the hemp industry. And there's like that in I'm talking about the manufacturers and retailers. And it seems like they're, they get always creative. Like now in Minnesota, there's, they're saying that the law is supposed to be interpreted that you can only sell delta nine edibles with d8, d9, or CBD. And I'm like, so you want to take away CBN, CBD, all that everything But where does that go? That means only for the hemp farmer. I mean, they'll figure something out. They'll figure out a way to make the market work for them. consumers suffer in hemp farmers. So there was this big push after the Farm Bill in 2018 to support hemp farmers and get these state programs going and convert to hemp. It's the great plant and it's good for the soil. It's all this stuff. And then, oh, sorry, no market for your product. Oh, well, you can make it into hempcrete or something. Well, there's no market for that yet.
Susan Burns: It's really crazy. Yeah, the hemp feed is, I think, the next big opportunity for farmers, and we're seeing that movement right now at the federal level. It's the needle starting to move, so I hope for them that that's the case. But yeah, everyone in every part of this industry, when I say this industry, I mean the hemp industry, is suffering having to have these constant battles to give consumers the choice. And most players in this industry, the good ones, the ones who want the whole industry to succeed and want their consumers to have choice, want common sense regulations. And that's, I think, an issue that gets lost as well, like being in these committee hearings at the legislator. Both sides are saying the same thing. Both sides are playing up the safety and the need for regulation. It's just Unfortunately, big marijuana wants to monopolize the industry to hopefully make back the money that they are all significantly losing on a day-to-day basis due to their tax scheme that they have to abide by and their regulations. It's terrible. I think it's awful, but don't take us down with you just because you're dealing with a bad situation. Let us try to help you fix those, not put us all down in a hole.
Allie Faver: Yeah, it seems that always struck me from the beginning is like we're suffering because we have adverse tax consequences. So everybody has to suffer with us. No, bring us with you to fight against that. I mean, to me, it's, it's ridiculously insane that, you know, you can't deduct business expense because it's federally illegal business, but you got to pay taxes on all the income. I mean, how, how crazy is that? It's crazy. It is. So let's fight to get that changed instead of fighting to get hemp out of there. And talk about because you're in a consumer product industry, hemp consumer product. I don't know your products and you can talk a little bit about them if you would. But I think for Most hemp product consumers are like lower doses of psychoactive substance or maybe no psychoactive substance. So if you go into, I was just in Nevada for a conference and I went into a dispensary there and the smallest dose gummy in the dispensary was 50 milligrams. Wow. I don't know what that would make me high for 50 days. You know, I, to me, to me, I've just, and I mean, I grew up in the day and we had peace, love, dope and all that kind of stuff. So I never was a stranger to the plant. And so what, what about consumers when you, when you, if you do ease out, if you do get rid of the hemp industry, talk about your products and the demographic for your products and what does that all lead to?
Susan Burns: No, absolutely. So I think what's unique about our business model is we don't have one type of demographic that we serve. So we, with other businesses, our demographic is an older population that's really only starting to wade into the CBD waters, and that's really their brand. Then we have people who operate closer to dispensaries and really sell only high-potency smoke holes, let's say. We have the whole gamut. We have We really believe in giving people their choice in delivery method. So that's smokables, that's, you know, if people have GI issues, they can't be having edibles or even beverages. So sometimes smoking, which passes the GI system mostly, helps people who have those chronic conditions perhaps. We have edibles, we have beverages, we have topicals, tinctures, you name it. So really whatever anyone's comfortable with. And then we also offer an array of products. So we of the CBD, the CBN, the CBD, the CBC. We also sell Delta 8 THC, Delta 9 THC below the 0.3% on a dry weight basis. We have THCO, HHCO. We also do sell some other products such as Kratom and Kava and Amanita. But in speaking about cannabis, that would probably be some of the largest of what we sell. And then in terms of milligram levels, we're really trying to appeal to all of our demographics. So we actually just brought in some microdosing gummies that are one to two milligrams per gummy, and it's kind of like a snacking bag. So that way, like, right, who wants to eat one gummy? So that way, you can have five or 10 gummies, but still get the effect of a five or 10 milligram if you were to take only one milligram. We also have some higher milligram products in terms, and by higher, I mean 25 milligrams, 30 milligrams, depending on the average or edible or smokable. And, you know, we really see the gamut. We see the older individuals who are coming in for their CBD mints and their topicals, which is great. We see the people who are coming in who are diehard on their daily walk home pre-rolls that really help them wind down after a day. We see people come in before the weekends for their high strength edibles, or, you know, people who just have a higher tolerance. I have individuals that I work with, that I'm friends with, 20 milligrams doesn't affect them in the slightest. I personally am five milligrams and I'm good. So it really, we want to not be pigeonholed into one type of consumer or one type of product. We want it to be a welcoming space for everyone, right? We want it to be that environment. And I think what's really interesting that you hit the nail on the head on and what most regulators are not realizing is dispensaries do not, they act like they want the hemp products, but they don't. You cannot get a five milligram beverage into a dispensary if you wanted to. It takes up too much shelf space and that's not the consumer that's going in there. So they're going to take microdosing gummies, like it's not going to happen. So it's just this appearance that they're putting on that, you know, we want the hemp too. We're going to put it in our dispensaries. It's not going to happen to all these small businesses that are manufacturing the microdosing products or the beverages that are five milligrams. They're being sold the sweet story, but it's just, it's not what we're seeing in the distribution world. We work with distributors to see what the appetite is and it's not there. So that's what I think is really intriguing as well.
Allie Faver: It is, it is. And even in Minnesota, they had, In 2022, they expressly permitted hemp infused beverages. So that market went nuts. And it was great because you can buy it, it was ubiquitous, you could go to the grocery store and get it, you could go to a dispensary and buy it, you can buy it anywhere. So but the limit was five milligrams. And so you had some people manufacturing with two milligrams or five milligrams THC with you know, so many of 1 to 2 THC to CBD or things like that. So there was a variety of product for everybody. Then they increase it to 10 milligrams. So you see a lot more of 10 milligrams. So to me, I won't buy it because it's a waste. I can't do 10.
Susan Burns: Right. And that's the thing too is we, you know, so coming up with so many different options for our consumers. So we, you know, whether it's a resealable cap or whether it's, you know, getting into the local bars to give people a non-alcoholic option where, you know, they can go one-to-one with their friends who are drinking beers and seltzers and not just have one and have to sit there the rest of the night while their friends are continuing to consume beverages because, you know, they've consumed their cap. So I think there really is a market for these low THC beverages, because if you treat it like a one-to-one in terms of effects, it gives people the opportunity to keep up that social interaction without having to sit there twiddling their thumbs in a bar or in a restaurant while their friends are continuing to sip on their beverages. What's great, and especially in Minnesota, you have the accessibility in total wine. That is changing the game. It's completely taking the stigma I think and really squashing it from what we've seen even just five, 10 years ago. The stigma is really what is one of the biggest hurdles, the education, right? A lot of these legislators, especially the ones in more remote areas are the ones who maybe are only reading headlines, salacious headlines. They don't know. They don't know about the industry. They don't know about the impact of what these bills are that they're pushing. They have no clue
Allie Faver: I think that's exactly right on. And I mean, as you and I both know, and you suggested that when we started this conversation, is it's a huge learning curve. It is. And I, I mean, I learn more every day, which is part of what fascinates. It's such a nerdy niche, you know, it just fascinates me, but there's so much to learn. And, and I think that, that the mindset is still, if it has anything to do with cannabis, which is equates to marijuana in the minds of most people is, um, you know, it's stoners, it's people that want to get high, like, high, high, you know, not just have a glass of wine high. Right. And so I think there's a lot, a lot, we've got a long way to go, but I hope the hemp industry survives in the process.
Susan Burns: Me too. I mean, seeing what's going on this week in Florida alone. Isn't that crazy? Truly. It's terrifying because you know, people's livelihoods are at stake and it's not this huge, you just read the salacious headlines about an eight year old who got access to THC gummies and Good players are not selling to children. They're having ID verification at the point of sale. This is not going to stop those instances where the headlines are happening. The laws and regulations that are being put forth in these states like Florida right now, that's not going to stop that. That's not the solution.
Allie Faver: The crazy thing is how does getting rid of a lower dose product prevent children from overdosing on product? I mean, that's also crazy.
Susan Burns: It is. And you go into any Senate or House committee hearing in any state, and that's the first thing that's brought up is a salacious headline like that. Or three teenagers in high school had to go to the hospital, and it's terrible. That should not happen. It shouldn't. Of course. But shutting down hemp businesses who don't let anyone who's under 18 in any way, that's not going to stop that. I don't know how people often see that, to be quite frank. I don't know if they're looking to put a Band-Aid on a bullet hole and just hope for the best.
Allie Faver: I think it's good lobbying on the other side. I don't think it's anything that really makes sense.
Susan Burns: Good in quotes. Yeah. If you look at the wine and beer industry, for example, I think it's a really good comparison. You can't sell beer direct to consumer, but you can sell wine to direct to consumer. Why is that? Right? Like you can't, my husband can't order his favorite beer from this brewery in California that he loves. Can't get it unless it's at a total wine or something here in Missouri. But I could order my favorite wine from Sonoma direct to consumer. What's the difference? There is no difference. The wine industry just had a better lobbyist at the time. There you go. So that's why I like it.
Allie Faver: Yeah. Um, I know nothing about kratom. Tell me about that. Is that a cannabinoid or where does that, where does it come from?
Susan Burns: Yeah, no. So it's a completely separate plant. Um, it is native to Southeast Asia. Uh, it reacts to the opioid receptors as a partial agonist. So depending on the way it's grown, so some soil, rain, things like that, it can change the impact the plant has. So that's what creates the strains. So you'll see a red strain, a green strain, or a white strain in people. What does that mean? Depending on how it was grown with all those factors, it affects the consumer who wants it. And honestly, it's the leaf ground up. It's Mostly in cannabis, a lot you see it extracted, right? The cannabinoids from the plant, unless you have a pre-roll or you're using flour. Kratom a lot of the times is you see like the powder, it's just the ground up leaf or you'll see it in a capsule and it really tastes like dirt, but it has, it could have a… Like beets, it's good for you. Right. So it could have a stimulant effect. It could have a pain relieving effect. It could have a, sleep aid effect, it really depends on the person's metabolism and the strain. There needs to be a little bit more research done out there, but it's a cousin to both the coffee and kava plant. Coffee, kava, and kratom are all plants that are indigenous to Southeast Asia that all operate very similarly. Caffeine is a stimulant. I go through caffeine withdrawals. If I don't have coffee after two days in a row, I have a horrible headache. It's one of those things where people who use Kratom truly feel the benefits. I'd say we have a very, very loyal Kratom customer base. And in 2016, the DEA actually put out a notice to see if it could become a Schedule I drug. And there was such massive pushback. There was a bipartisan letter in Congress, which when do you see Republicans and Democrats agreeing on anything? to tell them to pull back and not schedule it, and then it was not scheduled. It's the same thing in the kratom industry. There's various groups out there, including the American Kratom Association, that really advocate for common sense regulation. A handful of states currently have what's known as the Kratom Consumer Protection Act, so it lays out percentages of the mitra gene, which is the active that causes the effect in the human body, you know, labeling, testing, similar things to what you see in the cannabis industry. So that's a whole different type of consumer that we see, but it's one that is very passionate and very vocal about this product.
Allie Faver: Okay. Well, good. There I got a little education on that. I know it's not bodacious women and creative, but I wanted to get that in there cause I don't know anything about it.
Susan Burns: Yeah. And you just add a little nugget in there. Just give a little,
Allie Faver: Extra bonus. There you go. And so I also wanted to ask you, I want to be respectful of your time, too, because I only booked you for a half an hour. But if I could ask you two more questions. One is, you know, along the way, as a female in both the legal industry and the cannabis industry, any particular hurdles and any particular advice you have for listeners who are in the industry, seeking to get in the industry, seeking to advance in the industry, or any little stories, nuggets, gems?
Susan Burns: Yeah, no, absolutely. It is still an extremely male-dominated industry, both the legal field and the cannabis industry. However, I really do see the tides turning. Our vice president is this strong, educated, smart female leader. She's the best leader I've probably ever worked for in my professional career. Even the industry groups we're a part of, a lot of times the presidents of those industry groups are women. They're the ones that are really hammering down, getting into the front of these conversations. I mean, you still see it right at these trade shows. I've been to them. If you're not going out for whiskey and cigars and it's still a little bit can be unprofessional in terms of the industry as a whole. So it's hard to find like-minded professionals who want these common sense regulations. So we still have a lot of room to grow in the industry to move in that direction to make this an easier place for women to prosper. But I really think we're starting to get there. We're really seeing it. And I'm excited. I'm excited about in the legal field too, you see like 50% of law school classes nowadays are women, and it's amazing. It's incredible.
Allie Faver: That hasn't changed much over the years, I'll say. Yeah. Yeah. The graduate, the percentage of women versus men, but it's the staying power in the industry. In the profession. Yeah. So.
Susan Burns: That is true. You're right. I do see that.
Allie Faver: podcast. Bring me back for that.
Susan Burns: You're right. You're absolutely right.
Allie Faver: Bodacious women in the legal profession. That'll be the next one. But do you have any insider tips or anything you want to say about pursuing the profession?
Susan Burns: If you are interested in it, you got to just do it. It's one of those things before I jumped in, I considered it for a while. If I were to ever leave this industry and go to a different in-house job, for example, am I going to have that stigma? Am I going to be rejected because of the industry that I worked in? You know what? This is a little off the cuff, but screw everyone. If this is what you're passionate about, you want to be at the forefront of something novel and exciting and something that everyone could benefit from in one way or another and giving consumer choice and being at the forefront of both the industry advancing but also the legal front. It is changing every 12 hours and it is so exciting to be, you know, one of the first people on the ground to be testifying at committee hearings or helping craft these laws and negotiating with legislators. It is so exciting and I just thought you just got to get over the fear of the stigma and the hurdle of it and just go for it.
Allie Faver: Awesome. I love that. And I agree. So maybe that leads nicely into the next question, which is our signature question here. What's your unique brand of bodaciousness, Allie? What makes you bodacious?
Susan Burns: So I did look this up as well because it's Because you you get the right people know it as the more Stigmatized word so when I looked it up the root is bold and audacious and they kind of mean the same thing the way people use them them nowadays and I think just the willingness to Jump in headfirst and me personally who's someone with a legal background, you know, I'm more risk adverse and more want to play out the whole situation of the potentials before making decisions. I think being in this industry has really forced me to be bold and to be okay making mistakes and just learning to, quote unquote, fail fast and pivot and think on your feet. And I think the not being afraid and just being okay making mistakes and learning from them and learning fast. I think that's what makes us, all of us women in this industry, Barbados, just bold, risk-taking women.
Allie Faver: Awesome. So now you've given me some homework. I have to go. I didn't know there was another side to the word bodacious. I'll have to go research that. But it sounds maybe spicy. Well, it's been such a pleasure to have you. And I've enjoyed our conversation. And I'm sure our listeners want to know where to find you.
Susan Burns: Tell us. Yeah, absolutely. I love being here as well. Thank you for having me. You can email me at Allie, A-L-L-I-E, at M as in Mary, N as in Nancy, G as in girl, city, C-I-T-Y, .com. You can visit us at C-B-D Kratom, that's C-B-D-K-R-A-T-O-M, .com if you want to learn more about our retail business and the products we offer. And you can also find me On LinkedIn, plot twist, it's under Alexandra, A-L-E-X-A-N-D-R-A, Faber, F-A-B-E-R.
Allie Faver: Awesome. Thank you so much, Allie. Thank you.