From Activism to Agriculture: A Journey of Reinvention and Cannabis Farming Pam Hartwell, owner and founder of Mom's Farm, made a bold move into farming at the age of 50. After leaving her previous career and selling a portion of her family's land, she embarked on the journey of growing CBD on her farm in Minnesota. She joins Susan Burns to share her story and some of the challenges she faced such as clearing the land and dealing with crop failures, Pam's regenerative farming practices and community support have helped her find success in her newfound passion for cannabis cultivation. Produced by PodConx Bodacious Women in Cannabis - https://bodacious-women-in-cannabis.simplecast.com/ Susan Burns - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sburnslegal/ Pam Hartwell - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pam-hartwell/ Mom's Farm - https://moms-farm.com/ Recorded on Squadcast
From Activism to Agriculture: A Journey of Reinvention and Cannabis Farming
Pam Hartwell, owner and founder of Mom's Farm, made a bold move into farming at the age of 50. After leaving her previous career and selling a portion of her family's land, she embarked on the journey of growing CBD on her farm in Minnesota. She joins Susan Burns to share her story and some of the challenges she faced such as clearing the land and dealing with crop failures, Pam's regenerative farming practices and community support have helped her find success in her newfound passion for cannabis cultivation.
Bodacious Women in Cannabis - https://bodacious-women-in-cannabis.simplecast.com/
Susan Burns - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sburnslegal/
Pam Hartwell - https://www.linkedin.com/in/pam-hartwell/
Mom's Farm - https://moms-farm.com/
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, it is good.
Susan Burns:
then you come by the term bodacious woman honestly.
Pam Hartwell:
Yes, that's that. I got it from my mom.
Susan Burns:
Okay, and her mom.
Pam Hartwell:
and her mom and probably her mom before her but I never got to meet that one.
Susan Burns:
That's great. So do you have any questions about the conversation we're going to have?
Pam Hartwell:
I've listened to a number of your podcasts and you've interviewed
Susan Burns:
Oh
Pam Hartwell:
just
Susan Burns:
cool,
Pam Hartwell:
some
Susan Burns:
thanks.
Pam Hartwell:
remarkable, incredibly impressive women. So I got a little intimidated listening.
Susan Burns:
Oh my gosh, no, it's not.
Pam Hartwell:
I'm very new to the farm, like running a farm as a business. I have a long history in non-profits and local government and doing all sorts of extraordinary things in that area. But in my early 50s decided I'm going to start a farm. Why not? Why not start a farm?
Susan Burns:
Why not? Especially mom's
Pam Hartwell:
So
Susan Burns:
fun.
Pam Hartwell:
yeah, I took over some family land and yeah, here I am. So I'm a little intimidated, but I'm good to go.
Susan Burns:
Well, it's a conversation, so there
Pam Hartwell:
Yes.
Susan Burns:
isn't any reason to be intimidated.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah. You see
Susan Burns:
And
Pam Hartwell:
you.
Susan Burns:
what you're doing is fascinating, and I only, well, way back I interviewed one farmer, Angela
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
Dawson,
Pam Hartwell:
the 40 acres project, right?
Susan Burns:
but yeah, but that's the only person that I've ever interviewed
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
with.
Pam Hartwell:
that's what I saw on your list. I was like, where are the farmers?
Susan Burns:
Well, it's hard to find it's hard to find women farmers, first of all, and women farmers in cannabis.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, yeah,
Susan Burns:
You know,
Pam Hartwell:
it's true.
Susan Burns:
so
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
that's a sub specialty. Yeah.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Susan Burns:
So by the way, I'm recording I start
Pam Hartwell:
Okay,
Susan Burns:
recording right away
Pam Hartwell:
I figured
Susan Burns:
just
Pam Hartwell:
you were, I see the little red light
Susan Burns:
Yeah,
Pam Hartwell:
on, so.
Susan Burns:
I do that just because the best conversations I have usually are before we start the official.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
I was always thinking, oh my god, I'm wasting this beautiful. And then I would try to replicate it during the interview and it never would happen. So
Pam Hartwell:
Right.
Susan Burns:
I'm like, I'm just hitting record when I start.
Pam Hartwell:
Smart. Yeah. No, the only other question I had for you is I have been working with a lawyer here locally, and she is really interested in getting into, you know, more cannabis law. and actually started putting a group together of other lawyers who were interested, and it was maybe a couple years ago now, and they kind of decided, it's too chaotic, it's too messy, we don't want in. But she was really disappointed that it fell apart. And so I would love to connect the two of you
Susan Burns:
Oh sure, what's
Pam Hartwell:
because
Susan Burns:
her
Pam Hartwell:
she's
Susan Burns:
name?
Pam Hartwell:
down here in La Crescent, she's down in the Southern, I don't think she's quite a competition. I don't know how, you know, in this world
Susan Burns:
Oh,
Pam Hartwell:
of
Susan Burns:
I don't
Pam Hartwell:
sort of
Susan Burns:
worry.
Pam Hartwell:
competition and collaboration as we
Susan Burns:
don't
Pam Hartwell:
learn.
Susan Burns:
worry
Pam Hartwell:
I love-
Susan Burns:
about competition. There's there are there are plenty of clients, there's a lot of work to go around and especially as I like to support women. So you know,
Pam Hartwell:
Me too. Oh good, I'm glad to hear that. When we're done with this conversation, I will make sure that I find a way to connect the two of you.
Susan Burns:
Okay. And so, and so since you've listened to the podcast, you know, which thank you so much for that. I'm excited
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
to hear that. It's a, it's a labor of love and a passion of mine.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
You
Pam Hartwell:
I can tell.
Susan Burns:
know,
Pam Hartwell:
And I really appreciate that.
Susan Burns:
yeah, I really have fun talking to people, women.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
So you know, the sort of the general drill and yeah,
Pam Hartwell:
Yes.
Susan Burns:
I'm gonna ask you what makes you bodacious?
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, yeah.
Susan Burns:
Yeah, your unique brand of
Pam Hartwell:
And I'll probably be interrupted by roosters crowing and cats and dogs.
Susan Burns:
Good. We're
Pam Hartwell:
So I'll do... I've
Susan Burns:
good. It
Pam Hartwell:
done my best to soundproof my space, but it's impossible.
Susan Burns:
not to edit or leave, leave rooster crow in.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Susan Burns:
This is a farm podcast.
Pam Hartwell:
When I was, yeah, when I was at my, I quit my day job last year to dedicate myself full time to the farm. But before that, it was of course COVID and I was in a nonprofit organization doing community organizing. And so Zoom calls were the norm and
Susan Burns:
Yay.
Pam Hartwell:
people would just get so excited to hear the chickens and the animals in the background. I even did a I did a tour, Bring Goats to Your Meeting, as a fundraiser for Habitat for Humanity, where I was working.
Susan Burns:
Bye!
Pam Hartwell:
And did for a couple, for a couple of people, made donations to Habitat so they could have my goats in their meeting, and that was pretty ridiculously fun. Yeah.
Susan Burns:
Oh, that sounds great. Oh, good. So well, let's roll.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah. All right.
Susan Burns:
OK. I'll just take a little break here so the editor knows I'm starting the official. So five
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
seconds, and then I'll start in.
Pam Hartwell:
sounds good.
Susan Burns:
Hello, this is your podcast host, Susan Burns. I'm also a lawyer in the cannabis industry. And what delights me more than showcasing bodacious women in cannabis? Nothing. Today we're talking with Pam Hartwell and Pam is the owner, operator, and founder sort of, of mom's farm. And Pam made a huge transition into farming at the age of, can I say it, Pam,
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, sure.
Susan Burns:
at the age of 50. So we are going to have an amazing conversation. You're going to be so delighted you joined us. Welcome to you, Pam.
Pam Hartwell:
Thank you so much for having me.
Susan Burns:
So it's just a pleasure. What in the world made you decide to jump into farming at the age of 50? That's a big,
Pam Hartwell:
Uh, wow.
Susan Burns:
bold, bodacious move, if I might say.
Pam Hartwell:
Thank you. I honestly so I am farming on the land I grew up on in southeastern Minnesota, a beautiful section of the Driftless in the Coulee region looking out over the Mississippi river. And I don't know, it's such a twisted path of how I got here. I couldn't get far enough away from here when I got out of high school
Susan Burns:
Oh, I'm sure.
Pam Hartwell:
and I spent... almost 25 years, all out in California, being an activist and a mayor of a town and a nonprofit leader and organizer. And one of the,
Susan Burns:
That's impressive.
Pam Hartwell:
one of, yeah, it was a really, really unique town that I was a Green Party, one of the only Green Party mayors in the country. So a town that would have me as their mayor is a unique town. It's Fairfax, California, greatest, greatest little town ever. But some, I don't know, like, but this is my home farm. I have a daughter who's 26, and every summer of her life, growing up in California, we came to my mom's farm as often as we could for as long as we could. And every year I just started loving it a little bit more. One of the nonprofits I ran was an organization called Sustainable Fairfax, and then I ran a nonprofit organization on Terra Firma Farms. And I was just connecting more and more into really the messages and the learning of my childhood. And in the meantime, my mom is here on the farm getting older and older by herself. I got a sister in Florida and a brother in Colorado and I was out in California. And I just got to a point where I said, I feel like I need to be there. I feel like we need to save this land and the family. My grandparents had purchased it in the 50s, 1950s. And I just felt a really a call to it. And so I left my husband and my nonprofit world and my mayorship and moved 2000 miles away with my teenage daughter to have her spend a junior year away, a cultural exchange program in rural Minnesota
Susan Burns:
Ha ha ha.
Pam Hartwell:
and try to be a farmer. Like try to find a way to save, first save the farm, help my mother in her final years live peacefully and beautifully, which we did.
Susan Burns:
that is.
Pam Hartwell:
and then, and hold on to it and see can I make a living on this farm. And I kind of went through goats and chickens and pigs and just kept trying to find the sort of niche that worked while I was still, you know, juggling non-profit jobs in La Crosse, Wisconsin. And I find my mother passed and I was finally able to buy out my brother and sister of the farm. It's a hundred, a hundred
Susan Burns:
Whoa, that's a huge one.
Pam Hartwell:
And then, two years ago, I was really able to sell a tiny little slice of the land and then invest that into the farm. And as cannabis in Minnesota started the legalization process, I just got excited. I had grown for many years out in California on a medical card, I'd grown cannabis for treating my own depression and anxiety and all the things that I needed to. keep that lifestyle up of doing a million, being a mom and doing a million things.
Susan Burns:
and living
Pam Hartwell:
And,
Susan Burns:
in California.
Pam Hartwell:
um, yeah. And I just really, I moved to Minnesota and found the just incredible lack of the, you know, kind of cannabis world that I had left in California was, was sad. But, um, I wanted to be a part of making it not sad and be a part of really de-stigmatizing cannabis. And so last year I started, uh, growing CBD. Um, and really enjoyed
Susan Burns:
Me and
Pam Hartwell:
it
Susan Burns:
him,
Pam Hartwell:
and I'm
Susan Burns:
you growing him.
Pam Hartwell:
growing, yeah, in the Minnesota Hemp Program, I'm growing just beautiful CBD flower. And I had kind of a test batch last year, so I'm really sort of new to making this a commodity crop and product. But this year I've got almost three times as many plants in the ground, grew them all from seed in a tent, and they're just absolutely gorgeous, beautiful plants. I've been a garden designer and a master gardener out in California. And so for me, it's really just this love of the plant and the love of the land and a desperate attempt to make a living at it.
Susan Burns:
Oh my God, what haven't you done?
Pam Hartwell:
Very little.
Susan Burns:
Master guide, blah, blah.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
Okay, so before we started the interview officially, the podcast interview, your conversation, you said you felt somewhat intimidated and I, for the life of me listening to you, cannot imagine
Pam Hartwell:
I'm going to go to bed.
Susan Burns:
why with your background and all the things you've done and accomplished.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
And now you're farming, which is... probably second to motherhood, the most difficult profession
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
in the
Pam Hartwell:
and
Susan Burns:
world.
Pam Hartwell:
starting that in your 50s is madness. I don't know what I was thinking, other than I'm really glad I have a lot of good younger friends.
Susan Burns:
Yeah, yeah. Well, maybe the cannabis influence. No,
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
I'm kidding.
Pam Hartwell:
And I feel, and I honestly, like, I feel like a baby in this industry, just because I've run nonprofits and I've run town. I've never run a, you know, I've never, I mean, I had a garden design business, but it was a very much a side mom business. It wasn't like, this is your full-time job to go make money and make a living and live on this. And so I'm intimidated by that, by, you know, a lot of the women out there who have figured out that way to find their, you know, to find their true passion and make a living at it. Yeah,
Susan Burns:
Everybody starts at the beginning, you know,
Pam Hartwell:
that's the
Susan Burns:
we're
Pam Hartwell:
truth.
Susan Burns:
all we're all reborn into different things as life progresses, if we're
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
lucky, I think. I mean,
Pam Hartwell:
definitely.
Susan Burns:
some people stay in the same
Pam Hartwell:
Oh,
Susan Burns:
thing, but
Pam Hartwell:
yeah.
Susan Burns:
I haven't been one of those people.
Pam Hartwell:
Me either, obviously.
Susan Burns:
My journey's
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
been zigzag too, so sounds
Pam Hartwell:
yeah.
Susan Burns:
like
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
you
Pam Hartwell:
life's
Susan Burns:
too.
Pam Hartwell:
an adventure, you know.
Susan Burns:
It is. So tell me about, I guess, in starting your hemp farm, some of the challenges would have been, it sounded like what you were saying, financial
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
in
Pam Hartwell:
yeah.
Susan Burns:
the beginning,
Pam Hartwell:
So I was really, really
Susan Burns:
or maybe
Pam Hartwell:
fortunate.
Susan Burns:
still.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, really fortunate to be able to sell a little slice of our property. It was 120 acres and I sold sort of two little kind of a 10 and a 15 acre piece off and fortunately property is valuable here. And so that was enough money to kind of allow me to quit my day job. I was working for Habitat for Humanity. It was just ready. I've been in the not I was in the nonprofit world for almost 30 years. And I was tired of it. Like it's in the draining, you know, and it's a very, I don't know, it was just very sedentary. And especially with COVID, it was just sitting at my house, staring
Susan Burns:
Zooming.
Pam Hartwell:
at a computer. And I was
Susan Burns:
Zooming
Pam Hartwell:
like, my body's,
Susan Burns:
all day long.
Pam Hartwell:
yeah, my body plus menopause was like, I need to move more. I need to be doing something more physical. So I think my challenges are getting my body in shape to do the physical work. getting the land in shape. My mother was in her 80s when she passed and for the last 15 or 20 years did not do much on the farm. It was not a working farm by any stretch of the imagination through my entire lifetime. It was more of a hobby farm in my childhood. My mom was like one of those 1970s back to the land movement folks and that was
Susan Burns:
It's
Pam Hartwell:
my
Susan Burns:
for
Pam Hartwell:
childhood.
Susan Burns:
her. Good for her.
Pam Hartwell:
But it was this farm has not made anyone a living for a really long time. So we had to really clear space. As I said, I told you it was like, we have a hundred acre woods and so you can't grow cannabis in the woods.
Susan Burns:
Wow.
Pam Hartwell:
So we had to clear. Unfortunately, our electrical company has a line that comes through here. And so they clear that line and I said, hey, can I grow under that line? And they said, absolutely. So I'm growing on less than an acre underneath the power line. And we fortunately, my mother was a... stickler about organics and what have you. And so she never let the electric company spray that line. They always had to manually clear it. So
Susan Burns:
Good
Pam Hartwell:
I'm
Susan Burns:
pepper.
Pam Hartwell:
able, yeah, she laid the foundation for something she didn't know was ever gonna happen.
Susan Burns:
Yeah, but the other thing about the, you know, so you have to prepare the land, but you don't have to regenerate the soil from years
Pam Hartwell:
Definitely.
Susan Burns:
of abuse from genetically modified crops and,
Pam Hartwell:
Yes,
Susan Burns:
you know,
Pam Hartwell:
that
Susan Burns:
pesticides
Pam Hartwell:
is so true.
Susan Burns:
being sprayed
Pam Hartwell:
That is
Susan Burns:
and
Pam Hartwell:
so
Susan Burns:
all
Pam Hartwell:
true.
Susan Burns:
the inputs. So
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
that's,
Pam Hartwell:
yeah.
Susan Burns:
that's
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
gonna fit.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, but we have been doing really regenerative practices. I worked at a regenerative farm out in California for a while. And so I really understand the, you know, the world of permaculture and regenerative farming. And so we're cover cropping, and we're using our chicken and goat manure as our fertilizers. Um, and we're, and I, and literally just invited people love farms. And so I've invited friends over to help out and they've come. Um, and it's just been a real, it's been a real gift, uh, to have people sort of help me grow something that is, uh, personal. I've spent my life as an, in the nonprofit world, asking people to help others. And so it feels different. but same to sort of ask people to help me. And people have been excited to do so. And I feed them really well, that's my
Susan Burns:
and
Pam Hartwell:
payment.
Susan Burns:
I'd be one of your friends.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, absolutely, yes, come on down.
Susan Burns:
Well, I actually, I miss the farm because my mom was raised on a farm and so in the summers we'd always go to Grandma and Grandpa's and I was the oldest so I was able to spend you know two weeks at a time with one of my cousins out there.
Pam Hartwell:
I love that.
Susan Burns:
And I miss the farm, I do.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, yeah, people do love people love it. And it's a very sweet little word nestled in a perfect little Mississippi River Valley. Coolie. It's very beautiful. When my mother passed, we a friend and I had visited a labyrinth at a center nearby. And she's like, we should put a labyrinth in your woods. And I said, yes, we should put a lot, let's do that. And so we built a lab, we built a little stone mossy labyrinth that you can walk in our woods. So it's also just a very, it's a beautiful place of respite and healing and, you know, we're right off I-90, but you feel like you're a million miles away.
Susan Burns:
Very cool. That's wonderful.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah. And I had my, so last year was my first, challenges. I have a whole list. Uh, last year was my first year growing.
Susan Burns:
Well, I want to know the positive outcome
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
of your
Pam Hartwell:
I'll
Susan Burns:
team.
Pam Hartwell:
get there. Uh, and half of my field tested hot. So I had to destroy
Susan Burns:
Oh no!
Pam Hartwell:
half of my first crop and it was 0.4% which was
Susan Burns:
Oh sh-
Pam Hartwell:
0.3 is the legal limit. So apparently all my growing out in California trained me to grow. for higher THC
Susan Burns:
how your poetry is done.
Pam Hartwell:
rather than lower THC. So sadly I did a little too well last year, but I feel really good. I felt I had clones last year and I did everything from seed this year and I feel really good about my cultivars and I feel really good about the plants going in. And so hopefully I'll test within range better this year and next year we'll see what happens.
Susan Burns:
Yeah, that's and so and are you growing and creating your own CBD from your
Pam Hartwell:
Yes,
Susan Burns:
plants?
Pam Hartwell:
yes. And
Susan Burns:
Nice.
Pam Hartwell:
my primary product right now that I am doing are CBD herbal blend pre-rolls. I really love herbalism. I've studied herbalism my whole life. My grandmother raised me on this farm
Susan Burns:
You're
Pam Hartwell:
with
Susan Burns:
cutting
Pam Hartwell:
herbs.
Susan Burns:
out.
Pam Hartwell:
Oh,
Susan Burns:
Your signal's
Pam Hartwell:
uh-oh.
Susan Burns:
cut out. So let's just stop here for a second until
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
we can see.
Pam Hartwell:
my internet doesn't always behave. Okay,
Susan Burns:
There, now you're back now.
Pam Hartwell:
good. Yeah, so the product that I'm making are CBD herbal pre-rolls.
Susan Burns:
Hold
Pam Hartwell:
And
Susan Burns:
on
Pam Hartwell:
I'm doing...
Susan Burns:
a second, Pam. I want a clean break for the
Pam Hartwell:
Okay.
Susan Burns:
editor. So just let's take a clean break here and then
Pam Hartwell:
Okay.
Susan Burns:
start in again with it. So are you creating your own CBD from the plants that you grow?
Pam Hartwell:
That's correct. I am creating a product that is a little five pack of CBD pre-rolls that are mixed with herbs. We all know that smoking isn't necessarily good for you, but we also know that both in it and the world of cannabinoids, the best way to get the medicine is to light it on fire and inhale it. So, and it's also the best way to know that your product is really pure because you can see it. I get a little nervous about extraction of all kinds. But I also, when I was a smoker back in the olden days, smoking cigarettes, the way I quit was smoking herbal pre-rolls. And so I've kind of kept that practice in my life and there's so many beautiful herbs and flowers out there that you can smoke that go beautifully with CBD. And you know, have sort of a lot of the there's like what's called the entourage effect with CBD or THC. And I find that these herbs sort of amp up that entourage effect without being like artificial terpenes or artificial this or artificial that. So, um, I like to keeping it as natural as possible and harvesting as much on this land as I can, uh, and starting to grow even all those herbs more on this land as well. So five little pre-rolls in a little cute pack that's smaller than a box of cards and even has matches and a strike plate on the box so that you have a little all-in-one package of pre-rolls to take
Susan Burns:
look
Pam Hartwell:
with you
Susan Burns:
at
Pam Hartwell:
anywhere
Susan Burns:
you. Yeah.
Pam Hartwell:
you need to go.
Susan Burns:
Well,
Pam Hartwell:
Just getting
Susan Burns:
that's
Pam Hartwell:
the packaging.
Susan Burns:
unique. I haven't heard of anybody in Minnesota doing that.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, I've seen them
Susan Burns:
There
Pam Hartwell:
around
Susan Burns:
may be
Pam Hartwell:
a
Susan Burns:
people.
Pam Hartwell:
little bit here and there.
Susan Burns:
But
Pam Hartwell:
I've done
Susan Burns:
yeah.
Pam Hartwell:
a lot of market research out in California and there's a lot of pre-roll packs out in California. So
Susan Burns:
But aren't
Pam Hartwell:
I make...
Susan Burns:
they marijuana derived?
Pam Hartwell:
Yes, yes they are.
Susan Burns:
Yeah. I have
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah
Susan Burns:
a NEM.
Pam Hartwell:
there's...
Susan Burns:
Which is the.
Pam Hartwell:
yeah and the nice thing about the CBD and the herbs is we can... I can sell them everywhere. So even if I get a license to do cannabis, there's a good chance I'll keep doing the CBD herbal pre-rolls because not everybody wants to get high and it's a really beautiful product.
Susan Burns:
It is. I think it's so necessary for that very reason that a lot of people are benefiting from it since it became legal in 2018
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, definitely.
Susan Burns:
farm bill
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
and so people are really they find it very useful for a lot of I mean the anecdotal information I hear is fascinating and amazing.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
I always learn something new so
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
I hope you do.
Pam Hartwell:
And I, yeah. And it's something that I've even as I've started growing the CBD myself have been experimenting with it and, and really love it. Like I really like I have had been sort of, you know, on medical marijuana. So that was always sort of my first choice. But the more I imbibe CBD, the more I like it and find that it gives me so many of the same impacts of THC without. without any disorientation or any, you know, I mean, I'm never a bad, I don't think that euphoria is a bad side effect, so.
Susan Burns:
No, but it doesn't, I think I agree with you, at least in my experience, doesn't interfere ever with my ability to focus, which I probably need to do more than you might all day.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
But I know you have to.
Pam Hartwell:
Oh, yeah.
Susan Burns:
So it's wonderful. And did you have more challenges you wanted to discuss?
Pam Hartwell:
Those were, I mean,
Susan Burns:
That's a
Pam Hartwell:
I
Susan Burns:
good
Pam Hartwell:
think
Susan Burns:
big one.
Pam Hartwell:
those are the big ones. Yeah, just kind of getting
Susan Burns:
Yeah.
Pam Hartwell:
the land in shape. I had the incredible joy. So I moved back here almost 10 years ago and spent the first five sort of just working and taking care of my mom. And in that process, I had left my husband back in California. It was time. But I also ran into an old... friend from high school and he and I have now been together for the last eight years and he's been my farm partner and so figuring out how to farm as a couple has also got its challenges but it's also been an extraordinary amount of joy too so it's been
Susan Burns:
So what
Pam Hartwell:
a...
Susan Burns:
is the most surprising joyful thing that you didn't
Pam Hartwell:
Oh,
Susan Burns:
expect?
Pam Hartwell:
just being out on the land, just being outside. I have this bird app that will listen to the bird song and identify the birds that are around me. I have a plant app so I can identify every single plant that's growing in our field. We are cover cropping. So the field is full of green before we put the plants in. And so that you want to make sure that, you know, that it's. The field of green is things that are good and compatible with the CBD and not gonna really compete with them. And so just being out there with the plants and the animals and working so hard that I'm dripping with sweat and just, you know, I really, and getting this, you know, invite people out to help, all of that has just been a joy. And just knowing that I'm taking this land that... you know, is my job to steward. I don't feel like the owner of this land. I feel like the steward of this land. That's how my grandmother was. That's how my mom was. And so really finding new ways to steward this land and bring a plant back onto it. That's been really, it's actually kind of funny. My very first experience with marijuana was on this land as a child because our neighbors who are our tenants were growing some marijuana up on the hillside. And I found it when I was hiking around as maybe a 10 year old little girl and had to tell my mother about it. And the sheriff came. I feel terrible. I got the good the good. He did cut it down. The sheriff cut down the plants and gave them a slap on the wrist. It was the 70s.
Susan Burns:
Okay.
Pam Hartwell:
And my mom said, oh, they're such good tenants. Please be nice to them. And then we proceeded, the sheriff was trying to shove the, I think they were like maybe seven or eight plants and the sheriff was trying to shove them into the back of his like squad car. And my mom said, oh, we've got a burn pile. You wanna just come burn it? And so we proceeded to get really high with the sheriff when I was about 10 on this giant tire of burning marijuana. So I at least knew that it was gonna grow here.
Susan Burns:
So a peak experience getting high with a sheriff at the age of 10.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, yeah, that was my first experience with marijuana right here on this land. So I figured it was probably a good place to, you know, to to, you know, heal my karma.
Susan Burns:
Yeah, destiny.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
Oh, funny. Did you think of that afterwards about the feeling and like,
Pam Hartwell:
Uh, you
Susan Burns:
how
Pam Hartwell:
know,
Susan Burns:
do
Pam Hartwell:
it
Susan Burns:
I
Pam Hartwell:
was.
Susan Burns:
do that again? Or was it something that just occurred in your
Pam Hartwell:
It was
Susan Burns:
life?
Pam Hartwell:
something that occurred and I didn't really think about it. My memory of it was that my sister had hatched this gosling in class because we had geese and ducks and chickens. We were a big, you know, 4-H farm. And she had hatched a gosling in her elementary school class. And the gosling came home with us to be reintegrated with the flock, but goslings imprint on the person who was with them the most when they first hatched.
Susan Burns:
You cut
Pam Hartwell:
So this
Susan Burns:
out
Pam Hartwell:
gosling
Susan Burns:
again, I don't
Pam Hartwell:
had
Susan Burns:
know
Pam Hartwell:
imprinted
Susan Burns:
if you can hear
Pam Hartwell:
on my
Susan Burns:
me.
Pam Hartwell:
sister. And we sat and watched this gosling chase my sister around. Did I break up again? Do you want me to try to do it over?
Susan Burns:
Yeah, let's break for two seconds here. So your sister hatched the gosling
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
in class.
Pam Hartwell:
and so my memory of it is that she's walking around in circles and zigzag patterns and the gosling is following her everywhere and we're all just laughing and laughing and a break in the laughter comes and my mom says, is anybody hungry? And we all went inside and ate, including the sheriff. So that's my very positive introduction to cannabis
Susan Burns:
A full
Pam Hartwell:
as a
Susan Burns:
experience.
Pam Hartwell:
10-year-old. Yeah.
Susan Burns:
So you had the laughter and the munchies, all
Pam Hartwell:
Yep.
Susan Burns:
the best, all the best
Pam Hartwell:
All
Susan Burns:
parts.
Pam Hartwell:
the best parts. Yep.
Susan Burns:
Oh, that's great. And so and so you still have chickens and goats
Pam Hartwell:
Yes.
Susan Burns:
on your hemp farm.
Pam Hartwell:
And ducks. Yes.
Susan Burns:
And ducks. Oh,
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
okay, but no geese.
Pam Hartwell:
No geese. That was one my mom's like, Oh, their poop is everywhere. They're obnoxious. They will surround a car and honk at it. They're pretty. We called them our guard geese when I was a kid and nobody really liked them. So we're like, you know, need geese.
Susan Burns:
Yeah. Well, I think I'm sure I know the answer to what makes you so bodacious, but will you tell us about your brand of bodaciousness and what
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah. Oh, geez. I guess it's just, you know, it's the love of a plant really when it comes down to it. Having been a master gardener and having been a garden designer and maintenance person for most of my daughter's early childhood, I fell in love with plants and I had grown up with plants and my grandmother was a garden club president. And you know, I just... and cannabis is such a unique plant. It is unlike any other plant. And so I think what, I guess if I have something that makes me bodacious, it's my love for the plant and my love for the land and my desire to grow it really well and bring it to people who need it. And maybe not the people who necessarily, like my target market is you and I. It's like menopausal women. And we want something different. I think when I visit my daughter in California, we go to the dispensaries and there's like these you know, pre rolls with 30% THC dipped in, you know, Roy Simpson oil with rolled in Keefe. And I'm like, I don't want that. You know, and I think that there's a lot of older, you know, people in their 50s and beyond who want to experience this again, maybe come back to it. And maybe they experienced it in the 60s or the 70s. And it's a different, this is a somewhat different plant. You know, the potencies that are out there are sort of madness. And so I'm also really interested in creating a product that isn't the strongest thing you can possibly get, but is really more looking at varietals and species, or, you know, cultivars that are specific for some of the needs of, you know, women our age. And I'm excited about that. I feel like that's a niche. that hasn't really been filled even out in California. It's hard to, I always go in and I say, I want something that's sun grown. I want something that's the woman farmer and they'll usually have some options. And for Minnesota, I would love to be, at least for my region, I'd like to be that option. Somebody, and so hopefully as the dispensaries start popping open, I can go in and say, hey, if women my age come in. maybe suggest this product, you know.
Susan Burns:
Yeah, well, thank you for doing that because I am one of those that
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
does it. I don't, I was just in Vegas for a conference. Um, probably the only reason I'd ever go there, but, um, but, uh, I went into a dispensary as I always do when I'm in a different city and, and all, everything was a hundred milligrams, the a hundred milligram gummies. I mean, I can't, I'm at two and a half milligram person.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
So. I can't even buy that because how do you slice up one
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
gummy? I mean, it's just, and I don't know who can consistently take that because for my tolerance, I would be pasted on the couch for three days. So I think it's a full spectrum, pun intended, of people that have, and this, what you're serving is a very definite niche and a need.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
So thank you for
Pam Hartwell:
yeah.
Susan Burns:
doing that.
Pam Hartwell:
Well, you're so welcome. It's my pleasure.
Susan Burns:
And where can people find you? Where can we find you if we want to try those delectable pre-rows?
Pam Hartwell:
I'm just getting my packaging together now. So I have not sold, I've actually sold one pack of pre-rolls to a friend of mine in a not the right packaging at all because she tried, I've been sending out samples and doing some little survey testing with my friends to see which herbs they like and which mixes go well together. Smoking rose petals is like swoon. It's just divine. There's some, there's
Susan Burns:
Serious?
Pam Hartwell:
some.
Susan Burns:
I've never heard of that before.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah, we have that we did I did like a mugwort rose blend in one and it was so delicious and so delectable. So I'm trying to sort of figure out how to use the same packaging with a sticker on the back that is for different batches. So I'm really still very much in product development. My daughter is in the process of building my website right now. But she's in Amsterdam, so she's not doing it right now. So this,
Susan Burns:
Okay, yeah, I bet. I can imagine where she might be hanging
Pam Hartwell:
yeah, this
Susan Burns:
out.
Pam Hartwell:
You know, this like think July will be our official launch where I will have packaging and a website and a place to purchase these products. I've had a number of friends around the area who have already said set me up with a display box. So I check moms-farm.com is my website and they will be available for sale on the website. And then I'm going to just try to get them in every, every smoke shop I can possibly find. I've been having fun networking from afar with all the folks who were working really hard on legalization in Minnesota. And so I'm hoping that I can, I went to the Minnesota hemp program, kind of. organizing meeting this year, I got to meet Winona LaDuke, which was she's just a green party
Susan Burns:
fun.
Pam Hartwell:
hero of mine. So that was amazing. I fangirled her.
Susan Burns:
device.
Pam Hartwell:
And yeah, so I'm gonna, you know, July, August, they're gonna be hitting the shelves and available on my website.
Susan Burns:
OK, so it's moms-farm.com.
Pam Hartwell:
Correct.
Susan Burns:
All right.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah.
Susan Burns:
Well, it has been an absolute delight talking with you, Pam.
Pam Hartwell:
You too.
Susan Burns:
And I can't wait to hear more from you. And so if you'll just stay on with me for a few seconds after we're done,
Pam Hartwell:
I will.
Susan Burns:
I would love to continue the conversation.
Pam Hartwell:
Yeah,
Susan Burns:
OK.
Pam Hartwell:
thank you so much.
Susan Burns:
Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me today and for this absolutely wonderful conversation.
Pam Hartwell:
Thank you.